Mitochondrial Dysfunction in E4 carriers

Insights and discussion from the cutting edge with reference to journal articles and other research papers.
Kylie
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Re: Mitochondrial Dysfunction in E4 carriers

Postby Kylie » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:43 am

Thus, apoE4 may cause mitochondrial dysfunction at very early stages in life.


Please forgive me for reviving an older thread.

I've been reading around the forum, and I've noticed a bit of talk about 4s having problems with mitochondria from a young age (something about not making ATP very well? - I'm still so new to this, the concepts haven't stuck yet).

My kids are only 2 and 3. As I'm a 4/4, they must also have a 4, right?

My question is: do we know anything about how this failure or inefficiency to produce energy effects kids? Should I be aiming to feed the kids a mildly ketogenic diet also, to supplement their energy sources?

Thank you for your help - I'm not even sure where or how to begin looking for answers on my own, yet.

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Re: Mitochondrial Dysfunction in E4 carriers

Postby hill dweller » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:32 am

Bravo for trying to feed your kids wisely at a young age. Give them good life habits by emphasizing non-starchy veggies and good fats and protiens. Cut out sugar, including fruit juices. Teach them that thirst is slacked with water, not soda or juice. Cut out sugary snacks; nuts, veggies, dips, hardboiled egg, cheese, a small serving of low-sugar fruit are healthy snack foods. Let them explore various forms of physical exercise so they can develop a life long love of physical activity; play with them. If anyone in your household smokes, stop.

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Re: Mitochondrial Dysfunction in E4 carriers

Postby jolicoeur » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:42 am

Helly Kylie

All your questions, even if it's an old thread is relevant.
What it is known about mitochondria is that glyphosate - one of the pesticides - is a mitochondria toxin ( Jeffrey Smith - Hashimoto Healing Summit 2016) and a lot more. The list is quite impressive on that glyphosate impact. Many minerals, vitamins, amino acids and fatty acids are necessary for mitochondria, as well as the rest of the body of course . Heavy metals could inhibit some enzymes and analytes in the mitochondria ( Dr. Hasse).

So not to overwhelm you with a lot of info, having an organic nutrition plan, added by filtered water could be a real good start. Look to information regarding permeability of the gut ( leaky gut) since there is 1 cell layer only. If it is jeopardized, big molecules are going through affecting the immune system, creating inflammation, damaging the mitochondrial function and affecting energetics ( Dr. Perlmutter).

Dr. Josh Axe has a good visual graphics of this issue, on his site.
And having not too much carbs could be a great idea.
If you want to find a functional medicine doctor/naturopath go on the Institute of Functional Medicine / Find a practitioner. You will find one in your region. They are great and are looking to root causes, take time with patients and have pertinent info and suggestions on what to do - all that based on scientific evidence.
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Re: Mitochondrial Dysfunction in E4 carriers

Postby circular » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:27 pm

I've always been grateful that while growing up we didn't have dessert except for birthdays and holidays, not even fruit. There were no sweets or sodas in the home. We kids drank milk and water and had orange juice at breakfast and that was it (and I wouldnt feed fruit juice to a child except rarely; ie, not in the home). I think this is why I don't have a need for sugary foods, pastries etc. I'm still kind of shocked when I see people eating desert. I just don't get it. I do like mild sweetness sometimes, like some Japanese purple sweet potato, but have no interest in the hard core options like candy, cakes, pastries. and the like. I did eat them in my 20s, but when I read about sugars I just stopped without any cravings. I think this may also have made my transition to being gluten free easier. I've missed dairy on occasion but not gluten products.

That's not a recommendation based on anything, just my personal experience with the possible benefits of leaving out of the kitchen whatever you don't want your kids drawn to. I see so many people wanting to eat a certain way, or for their family to, who continue to fill the ladder with something less healthy. I relax my parameters some when I eat out, but not having the food I don't want to eat at home helps a lot.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Mitochondrial Dysfunction in E4 carriers

Postby Nikki2019 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:58 pm

Kylie wrote:
Thus, apoE4 may cause mitochondrial dysfunction at very early stages in life.


Please forgive me for reviving an older thread.

I've been reading around the forum, and I've noticed a bit of talk about 4s having problems with mitochondria from a young age (something about not making ATP very well? - I'm still so new to this, the concepts haven't stuck yet).

My kids are only 2 and 3. As I'm a 4/4, they must also have a 4, right?

My question is: do we know anything about how this failure or inefficiency to produce energy effects kids? Should I be aiming to feed the kids a mildly ketogenic diet also, to supplement their energy sources?

Thank you for your help - I'm not even sure where or how to begin looking for answers on my own, yet.

I am reviving an old thread once again. My young niece and nephew are 4s and I remind my sister the emotions that go along with the holidays regarding candy and junk food. In my opinion, I think that affiliating warm memories with sweets and stockings filled with sugar can be reevaluated and reframed. Winter activities such as building a snow man, going to the ice rink, etc. can possibly replace eating holiday IR fuel. Maybe some broccoli in the stocking this year instead? :lol: Ok joke. I gotta make fun sometimes. No, really my sister gets carried away and thinks she is a good mom by going crazy with the sugar products with her kids on the holidays. So, just passing on what In told her. Since you are 4/4, then they have one 4 from you, and its nice that you know so that you can raise them healthfully to better prevent AD.
As E4 s, we are inherent fighters and don't give up so easily.

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Re: Mitochondrial Dysfunction in E4 carriers

Postby Nikki2019 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:24 pm

Pardon my ignorance, I am still in the learning process now. I joined a while ago, but was beyond busy trying to manage my father and now he's in a memory home so I have some time to research once again.

I wonder if since mitochondria is inherited maternally, does this mean that there have been any studies that show if the apoE4 is from father then it is not contributing towards the AD risk? I guess they'd need to have subjects that are heterozygous and study weather it makes a difference if the 4 comes from mom or dad.

It would matter to myself and other heterozygotes as some prevention measures I probably wouldn't do unless the trade off is worth it. Such as the HRT when if I don't think I have those hot flashes, etc. but would just take to possibly ward off the AD. If there were studies that show that if 4 comes from dad then less or more likely then I would better be able to weigh out the trade off reward/ risks.

I really appreciate this site. Myself and my relatives are mostly 4s as well ( some homozygous) and no one wants to talk about their own AD possible preventions. Either they are too busy or just burying heads in the sand. The ones that aren't 4s, I don't feel that they are a comrades with me now to be brutally honest. There are courageous souls on this forum.
As E4 s, we are inherent fighters and don't give up so easily.

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Re: Mitochondrial Dysfunction in E4 carriers

Postby TheBrain » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:03 am

Hi Nikki,

I don’t know the answer to your very good question, but I can share my anecdotal evidence. I’m 4/4, but the family history of dementia is on my father’s side. His sister recently died of Alzheimer’s and his mother died of vascular dementia (which E4s are also at risk for). My father died at 71 of kidney cancer, and my mother died at 68 from emphysema (smoking cigarettes), so I don’t know what would have happened if they had lived longer. Heart disease has been on both sides of the family (which E4s are also at risk for), including my father but also some of his siblings. My mother’s father died of his second heart attack at age 65.

No one in my family wants to talk about Alzheimer’s prevention, not even my two cousins who recently lost their mother to Alzheimer’s and who also lost their father to the same disease. I don’t get it, but I stay off my soapbox.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!

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Re: Mitochondrial Dysfunction in E4 carriers

Postby slacker » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:04 pm

Nikki2019 wrote:Pardon my ignorance, I am still in the learning process now...

I wonder if since mitochondria is inherited maternally, does this mean that there have been any studies that show if the apoE4 is from father then it is not contributing towards the AD risk? I guess they'd need to have subjects that are heterozygous and study weather it makes a difference if the 4 comes from mom or dad.


We are all learning together! Not sure anyone knows the answer to your mitochondrial/E4 question, but here is my anecdotal story:

I have 2 E4s, one from father and one from mother. I've had low energy for at least a year. My mother must have great mitochondria: she is 83 years old, lives alone, does much of her own yard work, goes to Silver Sneakers a few times a week, etc. She kept up on a 5 mile walk with me and my husband this summer when we visited her. On the other hand, my father died at age 69 of what was probably a massive heart attack, had a strong family history of coronary artery disease (CAD), and had very low energy the last few years of his life (cardiac related or mitochondria? Maybe both). The only known family member with AD is my brother who is currently 61; he has my mother's mitochondria and unknown E4 status.

More questions than answers...
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Re: Mitochondrial Dysfunction in E4 carriers

Postby Nikki2019 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:42 pm

slacker wrote:
Nikki2019 wrote:Pardon my ignorance, I am still in the learning process now...

I wonder if since mitochondria is inherited maternally, does this mean that there have been any studies that show if the apoE4 is from father then it is not contributing towards the AD risk? I guess they'd need to have subjects that are heterozygous and study weather it makes a difference if the 4 comes from mom or dad.


We are all learning together! Not sure anyone knows the answer to your mitochondrial/E4 question, but here is my anecdotal story:

I have 2 E4s, one from father and one from mother. I've had low energy for at least a year. My mother must have great mitochondria: she is 83 years old, lives alone, does much of her own yard work, goes to Silver Sneakers a few times a week, etc. She kept up on a 5 mile walk with me and my husband this summer when we visited her. On the other hand, my father died at age 69 of what was probably a massive heart attack, had a strong family history of coronary artery disease (CAD), and had very low energy the last few years of his life (cardiac related or mitochondria? Maybe both). The only known family member with AD is my brother who is currently 61; he has my mother's mitochondria and unknown E4 status.

More questions than answers...

Hi Slacker
If your brother has kids, they may find it useful to get his 23andme health info, easy enough to spit and send it off. He is on the young side. I wonder about everyones E4 status now, even in my gym class this morning! Not that I outwardly ask folks. :lol: Your mom has great mitochondria, but brother didn't get the results she has. Your ma has at least one E4, maybe 2? She has somehow avoided the AD, maybe with lifestyle choices that differ from brother? Just thinking out loud... the E4 allele is outside of the mitochondria so even if one has no AD or allele from mom's side and it is from dad, then it seems that it would not make a difference anyway? The wikpedia page I read mentions something about AD being more likely if its from mom rather than dad.
I do have some " senior moments" but had them even at age 20. Teens have the worst senior moments. I do get the afternoon sleepiness, but doesn't everyone? I read somewhere in a book that it's best to have medical procedures done in the morning, because errors are a lot more likely in the late afternoon because of fatigue ( all folks not just E4s). That being said, after seeing what my father has gone through with AD is no joke, so I am being proactive.
The prevention measures that I have implemented thus far have not been a sacrifice to my happiness YET. I find the IF easy. If I need to completely give up cheese- then we'll cross that bridge then. It's still around three weeks til New Year 2020 resolutions!
As E4 s, we are inherent fighters and don't give up so easily.

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Re: Mitochondrial Dysfunction in E4 carriers

Postby Fiver » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:16 am

Hi. Good questions!

Maybe this could help:

The mitochondria are indeed passed down from moms, except in very rare and extraordinary circumstances. But their circular chromosome is relatively small. Over the course of evolution many of the mitochondrial genes have been transferred from the mitochondria to the host cell's genome, making mitochondria dependent on the host cells. There are indeed some mitochondrial genes associated with disease, e.g., Leber Optical Blindness or the classic "mitochondrial diseases", but as far as I'm aware none of these are strongly and consistently associated with AD. I believe the classic risk genes are autosomal.

Mitochondrial dysfunction may be a component of AD - things like the production of harmful reactive oxygen by old or injured mitochondria, inhibition of the electron transport chain by toxins, or changes in how mitochondrial process different fuels (sugars vs. fats for example). This could be due to genetic factors or environmental factors.

One area of research aims to stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis (the production of new, healthy mitochondria to replace old, malfunctioning ones) with the goal of treating PD, MS, HD, DMD, AD, etc. Many of the lifestyle strategies and supplements discussed here seem to stimulate this, to some degree, in some cells, animals models, and maybe people.

I know less about a possible direct link between mitochondrial dysfunction of apoe4. I would have guessed the link would be indirect and related to the availability of various fuels and inflammation. Also, autophagy is the way old mitochondria are destroyed and recycled - so if that is disrupted it would make sense to have lots of poorly functioning mitochondria.

Thanks for this interesting thread!
Four relatives with AD. Concerned, but hopeful. Introverted, but will talk about science.


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