Mind your ApoA1 levels!

Insights and discussion from the cutting edge with reference to journal articles and other research papers.
circular
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Re: Mind your ApoA1 levels!

Post by circular »

Thanks Hepoberman! Sigh, always so nuanced ;) FWIW my TC was 145 and LDL was 79, so maybe that's why my HDL 'isn't that great' (although 'better than in the past'), using traditional models.
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Julie G
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Re: Mind your ApoA1 levels!

Post by Julie G »

Per this reference, your ApoA1 level is good, Circ :D
The reference range of Apo-A1 varies by sex, as follows:

* Men: Greater than 120 mg/dL (1.2 g/L)
* Women: Greater than 140 mg/dL (1.4 g/L)
I agree that HDL isn't automatically protective. Our community has spent some effort sorting through the nuances of HDL in past threads like this and this.
If we don't have as much garbage to remove, we will have lower HDL. This is actually a sign of good health and requires a more nuanced understand of cholesterol metabolism than just thinking, "High HDL is good". -Not necessarily!
I'm interested in seeing your evidence that low HDL is a sign of good health, Hep... particularly for E4 carriers :?. Given that ApoA1 is associated with reverse cholesterol transport and binds amyloid-beta to prevent neurotoxicity, both know deficits of the ApoE4 variant; my guess is that high levels may be very protective for our population. We touch upon the nueroprotective aspect in this thread.

As a non-lipidologist, I'm struggling to fully understand the relationship between HDL, ApoA1, and APOE. I know ApoA1 is the structural and functional protein that constitutes approximately 70% of the protein in HDL. From what I can glean, APOE is a lesser constituent of HDL, regulated by the ABCA1 gene. Quite a bit of evidence is suggests that upregulating ABC1 to increase ApoA1 and APOE may be particularly helpful to E4 carriers.

I just stumbled across this interesting study that suggests various dietary components modulate HDL. Interestingly, vitamin C appears to be associated with elevated ApoA1 levels. Who knew?

Effects of dietary components on high-density lipoprotein measures in a cohort of 1,566 participants
https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedce ... 7075-11-44
Results
Dietary folate intake was positively associated with HDL-C (p = 0.007), HDL-2 (p = 0.0011), HDL-3 (p = 0.0022), and apoA1 (p = 0.001). Alcohol intake and myristic acid (14:0), a saturated fat, were each significantly associated with increased levels of all HDL-related measures studied. Dietary carbohydrate and iron intake were significantly associated with decreased levels of all HDL-related measures. Magnesium intake was positively associated with HDL-C, HDL-2, and HDL-3 levels, but not apoA1 levels, while vitamin C was only associated with apoA1 levels. Dietary fiber and protein intake were both associated with HDL-3 levels alone.
circular
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Re: Mind your ApoA1 levels!

Post by circular »

I wonder to what extent the folate component accounts for the neuroprotective properties of dark leafy greens via HDL and Apo A-1 facilitation. There are probably more reasons DLGs (we needed another acronym!) contribute to neuronal health, but just curious.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Re: Mind your ApoA1 levels!

Post by Hepoberman »

Whoa, wait a minute. Low HDL is not good, I said having less garbage to remove is good (which will sometimes assay as lower HDL) You can see the nuance here, it is important to see the difference. This is in the context of the garbage truck analogy, of course.

I think a good way to try and understand ones state of lipidemia is best understood by considering the ratio of APOB/APOA1.

My HDLabs (now TrueHealth) range for APOB/APOA1 is < .7

My APOB/APOA1 ratio went from around .8 (113/137) on several variations of high fat diets down to .49 (62/125) once I started following my doctors advice. My lipidologist was elated. The only high fat variation that came close at .75 was when we attempted to eliminate SAT fat. Even though my APOA1 was higher on all the high fat variations, my most recent ratio indicates more optimal metabolism. This is because all these parts of the puzzle are always moving but the ratio tells us how many deliver trucks we have relative to the garbage trucks. As you might imagine, this underpins what is really going on.

APOA1 also has other functions besides RCT and that's where it gets very interesting.
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drae
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Re: Mind your ApoA1 levels!

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Hepoberman wrote: If we don't have as much garbage to remove, we will have lower HDL. This is actually a sign of good health and requires a more nuanced understand of cholesterol metabolism than just thinking, "High HDL is good". -Not necessarily!
I'm new and had no idea how to look at these numbers. This is amazingly helpful. Thanks!

I have a question about using eggs to lower cholesterol but don't know if I should ask it here or if it has already been discussed. Basically my question is, has anyone done this? Interested in anecdotal or studies.

Help, please, anyone. Thank you all.
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Re: Mind your ApoA1 levels!

Post by Tincup »

Hepoberman wrote:
My APOB/APOA1 ratio went from around .8 (113/137) on several variations of high fat diets down to .49 (62/125) once I started following my doctors advice.
My APOB/APOA1 ratio is 0.56 on 75% fat calories and my 4/4 wife's is 0.59 (Veridia lab) on same macros. My sdLDL-c on same diet was 20 mg/dL.
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Re: Mind your ApoA1 levels!

Post by Julie G »

Hi drae! Here are a few topic titles including "eggs." If your topic fits in any of those, post away. Otherwise, feel free to create a new topic in our Prevention & Treatment Forum.
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Re: Mind your ApoA1 levels!

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Re: Mind your ApoA1 levels!

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drae wrote:I have a question about using eggs to lower cholesterol but don't know if I should ask it here or if it has already been discussed. Basically my question is, has anyone done this? Interested in anecdotal or studies.
I used to be a vegan to try to control my cholesterol but became a patient of Dr Steven Gundry in 2015, and subsequently added animal fat/protein and fish oil supplementation. My total cholesterol hasn’t gone down much, it is still considered “yellow” but I understand that’s not unusual for ApoE4s. What I can say is my HDL (good cholesterol) went up, my Triglycerides went down, my APOB/APOA1 ratio is good, and my sdLDL/oxidized LDL is within limits but I do have to make sure my saturated fat is low to ensure this.

Dr Gundry, a cardiothoracic surgeon who switched the emphasis of his practice from cutting on people to helping folks heal themselves through diet and supplements has specific recommendations for ApoE4s, see wiki, https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Dr_Gundry%27s_Protocol He’s okay with eggs for ApoE4s, as long as the consumption is kept low and he only recommends Omega-3 eggs or pastured eggs (not cage-free, but the eggs from chickens who get to run around and eat insects, animal poop, food scraps, etc., and OBTW these eggs are hard to find). If you want to lower the cholesterol that’s problematic for ApoE4s, he’d recommend wild caught shellfish, specifically crab, due to its sdLDL lowering quality, watch the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfr9RPq0HFg&t=401s specifically the part starting at the about the 9 minute mark.
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Re: Mind your ApoA1 levels!

Post by Orangeblossom »

As an aside I noticed that in the Promethease report if you check under cholesterol there are quite a few genes influencing HDL. I was suprised how many.

On the subject of HDL I was a bit concerned about my level of 2.6 mmol/l out of total 5.2. This translates to 46 mg/dl. I'm not sure but think is a bit high. When I checked one of the UK Heart disease websites it mentioned something about if it gets past a certain level HDL can act differently and not be so good. I was a bit confused by it though.

This is what I read, putting my high level slightly into the 'too high' category :?

"The NHS recommends that total cholesterol should be less than 5mmol/l, with LDL less than 3 and HDL more than 1.
There is no recommendation for a maximum level of HDL, as the assumption is that it is ‘good’.

However, HDL’s protective effects appear to reach their maximum when blood levels are roughly 1.5mmol/l, says Dr Dermot Neely, lead consultant for the Lipid and Metabolic Outpatient Clinic at Newcastle’s Royal Victoria Infirmary and trustee for the cholesterol charity Heart UK.

He says: ‘Beyond that, higher HDL might not provide additional protection, and research is now suggesting that very high HDL levels, that is in excess of 2.3mmol/l, may behave more like LDL, raising the risk of heart problems."

I'm not that convinced by this though. It doesn't really explain why. I seem to have many genes which are linked to raised HDL so might be to do with that perhaps.

In terms of diet and lifestyle at the time of the test I was eating lots of things like full fat Greek yoghurt, eggs, fish, veggies, etc and exercising quite a bit.
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