Is calcification reversable?

Insights and discussion from the cutting edge with reference to journal articles and other research papers.
swampf0etus
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Re: anyone reversed their own arterial plaque?

Postby swampf0etus » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:57 pm

KatieS wrote:Swamp, I've been following your posts and so appreciate your prompting us to question what works for us. Interestingly enough, I've decreased my A1c by including more fruit and non-gluten grains, so possibly I'm one of your examples.


Excellent! Glad things are working out.

Gilgamesh wrote:And maybe the big fluffy particles really are benign!


Hmmm, you know how I feel about those 'fluffy' LDLs. ;)

progranulindefect wrote: if you have no family history of diabetes, you probably can eat higher carb than someone like me who does have a strong family history.


I'm getting the impression that you think carbs cause diabetes and a LC diet should be followed by those with a family history. This isn't true. There are no studies out there showing that healthy carbs cause IR or T2D. Processed, fibre-free carbs, packaged with excess meat and fat (pies, pastries, fried foods, processed junk, etc.) yes, but not unrefined, wholefood carbs.

I find it difficult to believe that you were carrying extra weight whilst eating only healthy carbs. Are you sure that's all you were eating? Eating wholefood sources of carbs means that you consume lots of fibre, making it practically impossible to overeat. Since I started eating this way, It's been difficult to stop losing weight. My wife has threatened to kill me if I lose any more! I have a family history or diabetes, stroke and Alzheimer's, which is why I've found this way of eating. Since switching to this way of eating my blood work has improved in every way.

When I was overweight and tried a low-carb diet, I lost weight and felt great. I therefore came to the conclusion that the carbs in my previous, healthy low-fat diet were to blame. Carbs were the cause of all the worlds obesity problems. But three years later, after I completely debunked low-carb, I realised that my previous healthy diet wasn't so healthy. It was full of processed foods, marketed as healthy. I was eating sandwiches made with bread that I thought was healthy (e.g. seeded batch bread that looks healthy, but isn't made from wholemeal flour). I'd be hungry all the time and always be looking for snacks. When I first experimented with a TRUE low-fat approach, I actually expected to gain weight because I still believed that carbs make you fat. But as I restricted myself to wholefoods sources of carbs, I never found myself to be hungry as long as I ate enough. I finally broke my weight plateau and managed to attain a perfect BMI.

My own success is just an anecdote and we're all different, however I do not believe that much weight can be gained by overeating wholefood, healthy carbs.

Also, have you considered that your LC/paleo diet may have contributed toward your plaque build up? A famous story in the paleo world is of Don Matesz, who was a prominent paleo figure who followed paleo/LC for 14 years and published books on the subject before getting health problems. The most disturbing was his development of xanthomas, normally attributed to FH sufferers. After he became a vegan, his xanthomas disappeared along with his other health problems. Read his famous Farewell to Paleo post here, it's quite an eye opener: http://donmatesz.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06 ... paleo.html

You also mentioned sleep problems and low-carb is notorious for bad sleep and insomnia. I suffered from it on LC, too. The mechanism for this is well understood, as carbohydrates make tryptophan more available to the brain.

I hope you find some of this information of use to you.

progranulindefect
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Re: Is calcification reversable?

Postby progranulindefect » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:15 pm

swamp, knowing how i react to different foods is very easy if you have a glucose meter. i ate healthy carbs. the result was A1c 5.9. i ate healthy low fat paleo with fruit- a1c 5.7. i took out the fruit- 5.1- 5.4. no high carb for me. you have to do what works for you. you agree that a lower a1c is a good tartget. me too. low carb gives me better a1c numbers. if you need higher carb to get better numbers, go for it. ps i checked out the farewell to paleo post- i did not have the reactions he posted about.

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TheBrain
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Re: Is calcification reversable?

Postby TheBrain » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:08 am

I recently started seeing again the functional medicine physician's assistant (FM PA) who got me started on the Muses Labs protocol when Dr. Bredesen was affiliated with this lab.

When I told her my coronary calcium score of 365, she noted that it's quite high. I told her what I'm doing, for example, taking vitamin K2 and more EPA omega 3's (I was already taking high dose DHA omega 3's for my brain). She said that helps to prevent progression, but I also need to reverse the coronary calcium.

She recommended I start a gentle form of chelation therapy in the form of an Xymogen supplement called CheleX. I asked her how long I should take it. Her answer: “Indefinitely.” She used to work in a cardiology practice and has written a textbook on cardiology essentials, so I trust her judgment and recommendation. I haven't done any research on the matter myself but plan to at some point.

Here's a link to information about Chelex: https://www.xymogen.com/formulas/products/?pid=440

Here's the ingredients label:

Xymogen's CheleX ingredient label.png


Her recommendation is to take two capsules 3x per day on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday OR on Saturday and Sunday.
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Re: Is calcification reversable?

Postby Orangeblossom » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:13 am

On this subject how do you arrange to find out if you have calcium build up or hardening of the arteries, a scan? On the NHS (Uk_ would they only do this if showing symptoms of heart disease I wonder. Any thoughts welcome.

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TheBrain
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Re: Is calcification reversable?

Postby TheBrain » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:39 pm

Orangeblossom, check out the EBT Calcium Scan thread at viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1355&hilit=ebt. A forum member arranged for a group of us to get scans done last year at our meetup during the Ancestral Health Symposium in Boulder, Colorado. That's when I had mine done.

An EBT scan (I've also seen it called EBCT scan) emits less radiation than a CT scan.

I've tried finding a practitioner or a facility in my area that uses an EBT scanner, but so far, I haven't been able to find one. Locally, I have found a cardiologist who does heart scans using a CT scanner.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!

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Re: Is calcification reversable?

Postby Orangeblossom » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:51 am

Thanks Alysson! I'll have a look at that. Perhaps in the future if I tell my GP about the gene and past family history they may do one, especially if i am having any symptoms. Over here in the UK the NHS seems really strapped for cash atm. I have a private insurance which will do things the NHS won't (if it is advised) so can perhaps see. I have had around 7 CT scans over the years for surgery (emergency, no other option) but would prefer to avoid in future, as much as possible.

Oh, OK, I looked online and found this, not available on NHS it seems but can pay for it...well in 2001 anyway, it may have changed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1705644.stm

"A scanner which can detect the early warning signals of heart disease in apparently healthy people is being brought to the UK.
However, the Electron Beam Tomography service will not be available to NHS patients.

People wanting to take advantage must first find £500....

The scan is being offered at £500 by a Harley Street clinic."

"The technique gives us the best hope yet of detecting disease at an early stage where it may be possible to stabilise it through lifestyle changes or medical treatment"

Professor Richard Underwood, Imperial College, London

Also useful summary of it here (NHS) https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs ... t-disease/

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Re: Is calcification reversable?

Postby Orangeblossom » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:04 am

Interesting, yes I can see how this might happen, (NHS conclusion)

"Among the four ethnic groups, a doubling of the calcium score increased the risk of a major coronary event by 15 to 35% and the risk of any coronary event by 18 to 39%. The researchers looked at how well the test discriminates between those who later go on to have either a major coronary event or any coronary event. They found that the test was a better predictor of these outcomes when the calcium score was added to the standard risk factors compared to when the risk factors were used on their own."

"Despite the researchers’ belief in CT scanning as a method to screen for future heart disease, we do not yet know if knowledge of a calcium score would lead to improved outcomes that matter, such as reduced heart attack. Such outcomes are determined by the treatment that follows testing.

One concern is that patients with elevated calcium scores may be referred for an invasive coronary angiography without further clinical assessment or functional testing for heart disease on a treadmill. This has implications for potential costs both to society and to the patient."

I don;t want to head down that route, really, and maybe best to focus on what I can do if do have high calcium, perhaps...what re the main things to do if you do have it? General lifestyle changes, I guess...

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Re: Is calcification reversable?

Postby sarahb12 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:18 pm

I've started occasionally taking drynaria (naringin), it is also supposed tof help make osteocalcin. It's been used in Chinese medicine for osteoporosis and dementia.

The K2 initially showed impressive reversal of arterial plaque in animal experiments, but I haven't seen people reporting it. And a lot of us take k2 (I do have positive effects from it, but haven't had plaque measured), so it seems some would be reporting reversals. We are missing a piece of the puzzle somewhere.

Sarah
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TheBrain
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Re: Is calcification reversable?

Postby TheBrain » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:57 am

sarahb12 wrote:I've started occasionally taking drynaria (naringin), it is also supposed tof help make osteocalcin. It's been used in traditional Chinese medicine for osteoporosis and dementia.


Thanks for mentioning drynaria. Where do you buy it and how do you take it? If my next Dexa scan shows worsened osteoporosis, maybe I should try this and possibly seek out a TCM practitioner.

My functional medicine practitioner says that K2 helps keep calcium from going to the arteries but doesn’t help reserve the coronary calcium that’s already there.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!

sarahb12
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Re: Is calcification reversable?

Postby sarahb12 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:30 am

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040MPV4O

It's called gu sui bu in TCM. I haven't been consistant in taking it yet. It seems to dissolve ok in warm water, so I take like a tea. I get a a bit of a headache if I take it just before bed, but many things give me a headache that way - including calcium.

As for the reversals, they have had seemingly good luck wIth the rodents, but I don't know if they were able to repeat the study. If it is real, it seems we might be just be missing a piece of the puzzle. So if it helps someone, we need to figure out why and if they were doing something different.

Linus Pauling thought that high vitamin C and lysine (&maybe proline) could reverse plaque. And supposedly rutin (bioflavinoid) helps. I take those anyway. Pauling was right about some stuff and some claim it works. I'm all for attacking problems from every possible direction.

Sarah
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