Stavia's High Saturated Fat experiment

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DaveKeto
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Re: Stavia's High Saturated Fat experiment

Post by DaveKeto »

Super awesome data, Stavia!

Ironically, while the protocol currently has around an 85% success rate (I guess you're part of the exclusive 15% club), the multi-day fasting in the 2-4 day range has a 100% success rate in *increasing* LDL thus far. Not that a lot of people are dying to do that one. :D
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Re: Stavia's High Saturated Fat experiment

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Thanks you so much for doing this Stavia. Ever since I saw the first film Running on Fat and all the following films as well as buying several of the books, I have wanted to give this a try. LDL's do not respond to Statins in my body(probably a good thing) so I have had to rely on no sugar <60 carbs, exercise, good sleep and supplements. Each year I learn more. I have always wanted to give the fat thing an honest try. You are truly determined, diligent and dependable.
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Re: Stavia's High Saturated Fat experiment

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PBW wrote:Thanks you so much for doing this Stavia. Ever since I saw the first film Running on Fat and all the following films as well as buying several of the books, I have wanted to give this a try. LDL's do not respond to Statins in my body(probably a good thing) so I have had to rely on no sugar <60 carbs, exercise, good sleep and supplements. Each year I learn more. I have always wanted to give the fat thing an honest try. You are truly determined, diligent and dependable.
Thanks PBW. I do try to strive for diligence and determination actually, it's part of my philosophy, which is the Stoic philosophy. I strive for the virtues of courage, wisdom, equanimity and justice. Thank you for recognizing this.

I do respond to statins. The first neurologist I consulted when I panicked put me on atorvastatin 20mg a day (which was idiotic of him, he had a half-baked notion that AD was a vascular disease vaguely remembered from a conference he had attended. Sigh. In those days I knew nothing.) and my LDL plummeted from 3.5 to 1.7 within 2 weeks. I couldn't think. It was horrible. But the cognitive effect was only after about 10 days, I was fine for 10 days, So whatever was happening had a delayed effect. I bounced back within a week of stopping it and my LDL was back to baseline. So it was completely reversible. Very interesting.
23 April 2014: started statin at LDL 3.5 (135)
5 May 2014: on statin since 23 April LDL 1.7 (65)

Next experiment will be very low fat in Nov/Dec. I am not looking forward to it (because I definitely think better in mild ketosis, and it curbs my hunger - it's going to be hard to be iso-caloric on low fat) but it needs to be done. None of our members have tried a series of different diets and their effect on their biomarkers. I do not promise to maintain it for a significant period. If I can't work effectively, I am bailing.
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Re: Stavia's High Saturated Fat experiment

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Stavia wrote:None of our members have tried a series of different diets and their effect on their biomarkers.
I've found my TGs to stay around the 55-65 mg/dL mark, where LDL-P seems to move in concert with LDL-C. sdLDL doesn't seem to be too much of an issue for me (as far as I can tell.)

Very high SFA (via MCT oil)
HDL: 92 mg/dL
LDL: 138 mg/dL
(TGs: 65 mg/dL, small LDL-P <90, LDL-P 1453)

Very high MUFA (via nuts + olive oil) with moderately high SFA from these foods (+ Pantethine & high-fiber):
HDL: 77 mg/dL
LDL: 79 mg/dL
(ApoA1 192 mg/dL, ApoB 72 mg/dL)

Very high SFA (from meats + dairy)
HDL: 71 mg/dL
LDL: 116 mg/dL
(TGs: 59 mg/dL, Small LDL-P 126, LDL-P 1322)

Very low-SFA (<15g/d) with very high carbs + tons of sugar + high protein + Glycine / Pantethine / Tocotrienols / Lots of Fiber:
HDL: 58 mg/dL
LDL: 63 mg/dL
(TGs: 56 mg/dL, small LDL-P <90, LDL-P 908)
Last edited by apod on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stavia's High Saturated Fat experiment

Post by Stavia »

nice data!!
I didn't know you'd done it.

My question is....what does it all mean?????
in terms of AD or CVD risk....

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Re: Stavia's High Saturated Fat experiment

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Stavia wrote:nice data!!
I didn't know you'd done it.

My question is....what does it all mean?????
in terms of AD or CVD risk....

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Good question. On one hand, I don't quite trust the data. As in, I don't think I can really get away with tons of sugar, tons of carbs, and actually see the lowest heart disease risk on paper (total cholesterol of 132 mg/dL.) I've felt best on the highest fat diet, with the highest SFA, so it's an interesting optimization problem of cardiovascular health vs cognitive health. I think the high MUFA diet seemingly balances these two camps well... unless of course PUFA turns out to be a promoter of lipid peroxidation and pro-aging (and this does seem to be the case)... then, the highest MUFA diet is just loaded with PUFA. I'm also curious to look deeper at higher levels of IF (which seems to correlate with lower intakes of fiber for me, and will possibly lower thyroid hormones a bit...) it's also hard to trust the idea that I could be getting away with something like daily 100g protein / 40g carb / 200g fat-containing meals (massive post-prandial triglyceride excursions?) if I'm just doing a small ketogenic eating window.

I'm planning on experimenting with 22:2 or 20:4 IF through the winter, as another data point with A1C, just for kicks. :D

Thinking about the advances in medicine, I'm betting that plumbing issues will likely prove easier to manage than cognitive issues (bring on the arterial nano-bots!), so I'm edging more on the side of running higher lipids and going by feel. It seems to take decades for cardiovascular issues to really develop / progress, where time seems to be on my side.

These diet-related labs were all run with at least 2-3 months of consistent meal-planning, so they all have a pretty good base to lock in whatever trends might be there. While eating HFLC, my A1C ran 4.9%, while eating very high carb, I ran 5.3%. I feel like part of the magic for the high carb diet was in its ability to stimulate thyroid hormones, and I generally had these carbs after resistance exercise (2-3 square meals/d at 16:8 IF) with <10% body fat. While the sugar intake was very high, it was still a remarkably clean diet (getting sugar from things like cacao powder in buckwheat honey over wild blueberries and black raspberries with a pomegranate reduction over a steamed salmon fillet + a side of stokes purple sweet potato, a huge raw salad bowl, and a glass of matcha green tea.)

I just got my Keto Mojo with 50x ketone strips and 50x glucose strips, so I'm curious to dig into intermittent spikes of carbs and see if I can learn anything useful. I'm theorizing that somewhere between 25g and 150g of post-workout carbs (at a caloric surplus?) probably looks ideal somewhere between 2-8 times/mo, and that this looks better than running strict uninterrupted ketosis... but I'll have to get to know the data better. I've been sort of playing with it on and off for a couple years now. It tends to be annoyingly difficult to gain any real insight that I can stand behind confidently.
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Re: Stavia's High Saturated Fat experiment

Post by NewRon »

Honestly, this would drive you to McDonalds!

Is there ANY hope for clarity?
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 60
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Re: RE: Re: Stavia's High Saturated Fat experiment

Post by Stavia »

NewRon wrote:Honestly, this would drive you to McDonalds!

Is there ANY hope for clarity?
more questions than answers here.
To quote the great Douglas Adams.
Current answers as useful as 42.



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Re: Stavia's High Saturated Fat experiment

Post by NewRon »

Oh that's just great!

Macdonald's it is then...
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Re: Stavia's High Saturated Fat experiment

Post by NewRon »

The above is not to be construed as medical advice of any sort.
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