Serotonin, Depression and SSRI Antidepressants

[Orangeblossom]

Interesting article here on serotonin and how a chemical imbalance may be a myth in depression

https://beyondmeds.com/2009/11/10/chemi ... ance-myth/

[Orangeblossom]

News article today on the difficulties of coming off meds in the NY Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/07/heal ... n=Trending

For me it's a month off the meds now and am feeling a bit better in terms of withdrawal, the flu type feelings are passing but still left with some vertigo and dizziness at times, along with palpitations. Mood has been OK, been interesting to be able to have more emotions than on the meds, which kind of numb you. Finding exercise very helpful. and eating healthily etc. Mindfulness has been very helpful and awareness, otherwise would have found it quite disconcerting.

I'm still taking my Longvida Curcumin in the morning instead of my Prozac and magnesium in the evening. and sometimes the 5HTP but it can feel a bit 'buzzy' sometimes so taking care with it. Apparently this can be normal as we can be a bit sensitive to such things after or during withdrawal. Vitamin D possibly helping too- have upped my dose (with K2) and seems to help as well. (was deficient in the past) Hoping for some sun soon.

Feeling a bit silly when i read my original post and how I confidently said about depression being to do with low serotonin levels and I know that is not the whole picture, now but hopefully people may read more than that. It is all a learning process- maybe if I didn't know about APOE4 I would never have discovered all of this. There is always a silver lining I suppose.

I found this site / blog which is very good and helpful- Beyond Meds.

https://beyondmeds.com/about/

and also this book A Mind of your Own

http://kellybroganmd.com/amindofyourown/

http://kellybroganmd.com/book-resources/

[Orangeblossom]

Three months on from stopping I'm back on prozac again at a low dose. I had got through the flu like withdrawal symptoms and was kind of OK, but getting very lacking in motivation and very lethargic. I think for me it is a key to doing the other things such as swimming, which has helped lots over the years. So, hoping to just take it every second day and that will be enough to get the benefits and less of the side effects.

I've got a few variants in genes meaning I seem to respond to these though so wondering if may be more of an individual thing. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/199 ... t=Abstract

Tricky balance, Overall I know that for quality of life and function it's best to treat depression, also depression itself is linked with dementia in future.

[Orangeblossom]

Re Last post- got to two days and it didn't work- seem to be sensitised to them now

Sorry, this post has got a bit 'me, me, me' didn't mean it to be like that. I don't meant to out people off with my experience either, they can help people and did me for years.

I'm going to leave this post for any others to comment if they want on their experiences or ideas / research on the topic and share any new articles in relation to APOE4 or dementia and alzheimers. It's back to the Curcumin and fish oil for me.

[Orangeblossom]

Final update: Managed to find a balance by having a tiny amount of prozac a day, a few mg measured out. Going to continue this and am feeling much better. Little side effects and less withdrawal problems (palpitations etc all gone)

[Orangeblossom]

Interesting and quite recent article on BDNF and fluoxetine, isn't BDNF linked with AD I remember? And low BDNF and depression is definitely linked with the start of AD...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5642497/

Beneficial effect of fluoxetine treatment aganist psychological stress is mediated by increasing BDNF expression in selected brain areas

Which reminds me of this study

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24648723

[Orangeblossom]

I thought this was interesting given the study at the start of this post. It seems continued treatment is better than one off meds. I also read around 80% of people stop meds in the first few months which may explain things as well.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19138799

Antidepressants and dementia.

It has been suggested that antidepressants may have neuroprotective abilities but it has newer been investigated lately whether treatment with antidepressants reduces the risk of dementia.
METHOD:
Linkage of registers of all prescribed antidepressants and diagnoses of dementia in Denmark during a period from 1995 to 2005.
RESULTS:
Persons who purchased antidepressants once (N=687,552) had an increased rate of dementia compared to persons unexposed to antidepressants (N=779,831). Nevertheless, the rate of dementia changed over time; thus during the initial prescription periods the rate increased with the number of prescriptions but continued long-term antidepressants treatment was associated with a reduction in the rate of dementia, however, not to the same level as the rate for the general population. This pattern was found for all classes of antidepressants (SSRIs, newer non-SSRI antidepressants and older antidepressants). All findings were replicated in sub-analyses with Alzheimer's disease as outcome.
LIMITATIONS:
Methodological reasons for the findings cannot be excluded due to the non-randomized nature of data.
CONCLUSIONS:
Continued long-term antidepressant treatment was associated with a reduced rate of dementia, however, not to the same level as the rate for the general population.

which ties in with this https://www.webmd.com/depression/news/2 ... ct-brain#1

[Orangeblossom]

So, I wonder if for people who are depressed is it better to treat it, (whether with meds or something else) but for the general population these meds would not be protective against dementia or AD. But is seems the key thing is continued treatment- it seems depression is conducive to dementia or AD.

This looked like a summary of the situation at present- guess continued studies will show more. https://www.biosciencetechnology.com/ar ... 78-percent

[Jafa]

Hi all, I’m seeking some forum opinion before I restart an SSRI. I’ve been off Citalopram (prescribed for generalised anxiety disorder) for a couple of years now, and have been doing well, and had decided that the evidence for going back to SSRIs with respect to prevention of AD insufficiently robust to lead me down that route. While there are studies in animal models and very small clinical trials which suggest that SSRIs might be neuroprotective and beneficial especially in MCI, the counterview links any antidepressant use, including SSRIs with an increased chance of developing AD. However over recent months I’ve developed increasingly problematic insomnia. A good night is 5-6 hrs, a bad night can be as little as 2-3 hrs, despite being really careful with sleep hygiene, getting regular exercise, using meditation and working my way systematically through quite a long list of supplements which might help with sleep.

Knowing how central and vital sleep is to the prevention of AD isn’t helping - I lie awake increasingly anxious about not sleeping. Sleep initiation is usually not the problem, but I’ll wake after 2-3 hrs and be unable to get back to sleep, or if I do then it’s light with frequent wakings. Getting out of bed really doesn’t seem to make a lot of difference.

So, I guess I’ve developed sleep anxiety, and reluctantly am pretty much ready to go back on a 6 week trial of my SSRI. What I’d appreciate is some opinion on the interactions of SSRIs with my current supplements.

I know that the herbals are a risk, so will suspend taking Ashwagandha, Bacopa and Relora. Resveratrol is supposed to be taken at a different time to other medications and supplements, and I’ll do that. 5HTP is a serotonin precursor with a risk of serotonin syndrome if co-administered with SSRIs (this is the main reason why we cannot import 5HTP from the US ) so I’ll drop that, wasn’t really helping anyway. Thought I’d leave the rest in. I’m not quite sure about a possible interaction between SSRIs and Curcumin, and would appreciate the community’s wisdom on this, and the rest of my stack.

Here’s my current stack with time of ingestion.

Resveratrol, taken currently first thing in the morning on a 4 days on, 3 off basis.
Ubiquinol and PQQ on the days I don’t take resveratrol. (A bit of a scatterbrained approach I know. I’m just not comfortable taking so many supplements a day)
B6, B12 and folate (and some days riboflavin to aid methylation) TMG and zinc in the morning with Ashwagandha and Bacopa.
Theracumin and Omega 3 with late morning coffee, and VitD/K2 2-3 days a week,
ALA before lunch.
Creatine and sunflower lecithin around lunchtime, the latter only if I’ve not had eggs.
TMG, Ashwagandha and Bacopa after evening meal.
Magnesium threonate, melatonin and zinc an hour before bed, with glycine powder in my cup of non-caffeinated chamomile. I alternate Relora, L-theanine and Taurine before bed but would not take these while on Citalopram.


As you can see, taking supplements is a full time job. Between that and keeping up with forum I couldn’t possibly come out of retirement to re-enter paid employment If anyone has a simpler regimen I’m all ears. Thanks.

[Stavia]

Omg. Serious dedication. I'm very impressed.

I personally think that if the citalopram helps your sleep its worth a trial. I cant see any major interactions.

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