Lectins and their benefits

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CarrieS
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Postby CarrieS » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:30 pm

candi15 wrote:I was at first a little sceptical when I came across Dr Gundry but I did end up buying the book which I thought made a lot of sense. I decided to try cutting out as many lectins as was possible and it has had a dramatic effect on me for the better. Last year this time I had several allergy problems, I had really bad hayfever since I was a child but over the last 4-5 years had developed allergic ashma, dog allergy, mold allergies and was starting to feel as if everything was going seriously downhill. I was on steroid inhalers and various other tablets and sprays which at the very best marginally kept my symptoms in check. Since getting really quite serious about cutting out lectins all my allergies have dissappeared.
I did try introducing some of (only small amount) the banned foods and immediately started having symptoms again.......so I'm sticking with it.
It may not work for everyone but I thought I would add my personal experience.....but would be very interested to hear other peoples experiences...either positive or negative with this.


Welcome to the Forum candi15. Thank you for sharing your story about finding your personal food triggers. It takes perseverance to figure out what isn't making us feel good and I commend you on keeping at it and finding your success. I too eliminated common foods that caused inflammation and after trying reintroduction, found that dairy really made me hurt. Once I figured that out I have been compelled to keep dairy out of my diet so I can continue living pain free.
If you haven't found it yet, the Primer is full of information that you may find useful. It was written by Stavia, a physician member of the community. You can find it under Getting Started, An introduction to ApoE4, biochemistry, and possible prevention strategies or click on this link: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1418
Again, welcome.
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Postby Searcher » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:24 am

circular wrote: whether what's good for longevity will end up automatically being good for cognition.


Can something that helps keep you alive for longer be bad for your cognitive abilities?

There must be some examples. However, there are many examples where factors that increase your risk of death also increase your risk of cognitive decline.

Hypertension is an example. It tends to increase the risk of premature death as well as the risk of dementia.

"Onset of hypertension in mid-adulthood predicted 73% higher dementia risk in women (95% CI 1.24–2.40) compared to stable normotensive."

http://n.neurology.org/content/early/20 ... 0000004602

Many other risk factors for dementia also increase the risk of premature death.

Relative lack of education, smoking, depression, social isolation, physical inactivity, obesity, diabetes - all increase the risk of dementia as well as the risk of premature death.

[Edit: In a cohort study of people over 65, systolic blood pressure ABOVE 139 mm Hg was found to be a PROTECTIVE factor against incident dementia.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336092/

However, a higher BP increases the risk of heart failure and mortality. So this might be one of the examples for something that protects cognition while increasing the risk of death.]

Switching to another question, morbidity has different levels. Bloating may be considered a mild and temporary form of morbidity. It's often related to the fiber content of food. Full-blown AD is a severe form of morbidity. Some may be prepared to put up with a certain amount of temporary bloating in exchange for a reduced risk of AD. That's why the duration and severity of disability are given so much weight in estimates of morbidity.

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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Postby TheresaB » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:21 pm

Dr Mercola interviewed Dr Gundry for a second time last month (Dec 2017) and one the issues they discussed was the negative reaction Dr Gundry received regarding his opinion on lectins. Dr Gundry stated he’s not against lectins, but his experience is that Western practices and diet have resulted in leaky gut and autoimmune conditions. He is fine with reintroducing lectins for the benefits after leaky gut issues have healed. Excerpts from the interview.

Dr Gundry:
“You know, I’m not against these things. [lectins] In fact, I’ve got a bean recipe in my book. All I’m saying is that we have to be very cognizant of the lectin content in grains and beans, and that there are ways to destroy lectins, by pressure cooking the beans. It makes them perfectly safe if you want to eat beans.”

He went on to say…
“I’ve been doing this for 15 to 17 years now. I’ve amassed a rather impressive file of thousands of patients. As time went on, I had better and better tests to look at the inflammatory response of the immune system. I wrote about that in response to removing or introducing some major dietary lectins. I didn’t do this with an agenda. I didn’t have a grudge on my shoulder against lectins. If I could eat mashed potatoes, French fries and phenomenal French bread every day, I’d probably be a happy guy. I would probably be a lot sicker, like I used to be. But I have nothing against these things. It’s just that as the data came forward from thousands of people, very distinct patterns emerged, reproducible patterns. I could reintroduce these things and literally watch the immune system get turned on again. Then I could remove some of these factors and watch the immune system calm down. There was clearly a cause and effect.
(I added bold font)

Dr Mercola:
“But for those who don’t have autoimmune diseases, the lectins are in many of the vegetables that have seeds. These vegetables, in addition to lectins, have many beneficial micronutrients and polyphenols. Can you help clarify your position on once you achieve a certain level of health and wellness, once you’re there, how can you integrate this small amount of lectins comfortably back in and still get the benefits of the other micronutrients in the foods?”
(Again, I added bold font)

Dr Gundry’s response:
“Yeah. You know, you’re right. Almost every author in the autoimmune space, absolutely removing major lectin-containing foods is kind of part and parcel of the treatment of autoimmune disease. You look at Dr. Izabella Wentz or Dr. Amy Myers. Dr. Dale Bredesen is now on my program. Dr. David Perlmutter removes lectins. You recommend removing lectins. I mean really, anybody who talks in this space and not remove lectins – everybody else is removing lectins. I think that’s a very important part of treating autoimmune disease. Certainly, I’ve written about this and shown it in actual patients.
… I think that when you look at traditional cultures that have not been inundated by antibiotics, by nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), by proton pump inhibitors with all of our personal care items, then I think you can make the argument. In fact, these guys’ defense system against lectins is pretty doggone intact. They have a really good tolerance for lectins. On the other hand, our defense system in the West has been decimated….
…Everybody’s a little bit different. But I think, like I see in the book, that once we kind of get the gut back in shape, that we solve the leaky gut problem – we could see it on lab tests – then it’s time to – if you want to reintroduce dietary lectins – start with small vegetables, peel and deseed them if you want to. Certainly, pressure cooking solves the problem for most people. But I have no problem and actually urge people to start reintroducing dietary lectins. But I’m telling you, the autoimmune folks, we’ve tried, they’ve tried. [There were] little bits of things, almost always inside their immune system…”
(again I added the bold font)

Here is the link to Dr Mercola’s article with a link to the video interview and transcript
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... ealth.aspx
Here’s a link to the transcript directly:
https://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/Exper ... ectins.pdf
-Theresa
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Postby circular » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:09 pm

Searcher wrote:
circular wrote: whether what's good for longevity will end up automatically being good for cognition.


Can something that helps keep you alive for longer be bad for your cognitive abilities? ...

I guess I was thinking about how age is still the #1 risk factor for AD, so if one is aiming at a longer and longer life ... But I see your points too.
Searcher wrote:Switching to another question, morbidity has different levels. Bloating may be considered a mild and temporary form of morbidity. It's often related to the fiber content of food. Full-blown AD is a severe form of morbidity. Some may be prepared to put up with a certain amount of temporary bloating in exchange for a reduced risk of AD. That's why the duration and severity of disability are given so much weight in estimates of morbidity.

Thanks for explaining this. I didn't know they weighted the estimates of morbidity in that way, which is interesting. I need a course in research statistics so I understand all that better.

In my case if I eat much in the way of grains, bloating is constant and uncomfortable, literally never goes away. If they are gluten-containing grains the bloating is severe and constant and accompanied by brain fog and lethargy, although I'm not celiac genetically or otherwise. It would be very different if the bloating was temporary and then I had a nice free and relaxed feeling from my ribcage down. That's what made it so easy for the last ten years to stay away from gluten and casein once I stopped them and felt so much better. That could still be a reaction to fiber rather than lectins (although dairy has little fiber), but not one I can live with. So I wonder, do researchers have a check mark for bloated and give all those cases the same weighting?

I wanted to link to this podcast (1/15/18) with Nate Bergman and Martha Claire Morris, who you may know is behind the MIND diet research. She's a great resource, having studied diet and cognition for over 20 years. In addition to her published MIND diet research, she's conducting some good ongoing research that she talks about. The point I wanted to make here is that she says the studies of diets that include grain show that it's anti-inflammatory. This won't surprise you, and it's congruent with your noting the significant reductions in many diseases that we know involve inflammation.

I must say, it's not easy to reconcile these opposing perspectives if you're a patient with ongoing symptoms that interfere with your quality of life, but Dr. Gundry's perspective that context makes the difference is very sensible to me (thanks Theresa). As another example of an exception, those who have connective tissue disorders (not as rare as believed), often have compromised gut linings early on (connective tissue there is weak), making them more susceptible, earlier, to the environmental insults that are already harming those with decent connective tissue. They may get leakier and sicker sooner than others. Many in fact end up with serious immune issues that aren't autoimmune, but may one day become autoimmune.

Anyway, so interesting. I also really liked your comment about a sample of biomarkers not being as useful as health outcomes, good biomarkers not necessarily amounting to the best outcomes and vice versa, and the limits of focusing on such a tiny sample of the universe of potential biomarkers that we don't even know anything about. That's where whole foods and their outcomes appear to be so useful.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Postby Orangeblossom » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:02 am

It may be useful to read this review of the Plant Paradox book. I have not read it myself and can't comment, but found this comment interesting.- especially given the qualifications of those writing it. I found it while trying to understand the research behind the theories about lectins.

http://nutritionstudies.org/the-plant-p ... ommentary/

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Re: RE: Re: Lectins and their benefits

Postby Stavia » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:55 pm

Orangeblossom wrote:It may be useful to read this review of the Plant Paradox book. I have not read it myself and can't comment, but found this comment interesting.- especially given the qualifications of those writing it. I found it while trying to understand the research behind the theories about lectins.

http://nutritionstudies.org/the-plant-p ... ommentary/
Interesting point of view.
Its good to have contrasting views, and then we can all decide what works best for each one of us.
I personally believe that there is not one one "right way", but perhaps several "right options" of dietary approaches from which we can choose.
And I again bang the drum of not forgetting other non-diet critical strategies i.e. exercise, sleep, stress management and cognitive enhancement.

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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Postby Jaque » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:19 pm

I don't want to say outright that Dr. Gundry is a fraud, but with my research background, I would take Dr. Campbell and Dr. Esselstyn's research far more convincing over anything Dr. Gundry says.
I am sorry Doctor Stavia, but this is not about "contrasting views". It is about "fake research" versus "solid research".

Peace and Good Health.

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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Postby Searcher » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:50 pm

Orangeblossom wrote:It may be useful to read this review of the Plant Paradox book.

http://nutritionstudies.org/the-plant-p ... ommentary/


Thanks, Orangeblossom. I didn't know the scientific basis was so dubious.

The papers cited earlier in this thread are examples of reliable scientific research. If anyone comes across any scientific research at all that supports views to the contrary, please draw attention to it. I'd be very interested to study it.

Meanwhile, I don't want to increase my risks of cardiovascular disease, cancers, infections and premature mortality by avoiding healthy foods that happen to contain lectins. There's only one life and brain for each of us, and I need to base my choices on reliable scientific research.
Last edited by Searcher on Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Postby Searcher » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:17 pm

circular wrote:do researchers have a check mark for bloated and give all those cases the same weighting?


Quality-adjusted life years (or the related concept of disability-adjusted life years) summarize morbidity.

For example, a person who has lost a toe has lost fewer QALYs (or DALYs) than someone who has lost a foot. That's obvious. But not all such comparisons are obvious.

How do you compare, for example, the morbidity of going blind with the morbidity of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease?

What researchers do is to ask panels of ordinary people to rank pairs of experiences. Which would they find less bearable? Going blind or finding it difficult to breathe? When this is repeated for many pairs of experiences, a ranking begins to emerge from the collective opinions. That enables the researchers to attach weights to various disabilities.

At one end is zero disability, which is perfect health. At the other end is death which is 100% disability. Feeling bloated would probably have a low weight compared to other disabilities.

It was this approach which allowed researchers to describe Alzheimer's disease as the cause of disability which grew most rapidly between 1990 and 2010 (roughly 150% increase).

circular wrote:That's where whole foods and their outcomes appear to be so useful.


Even single molecules, when used as interventions, need to be evaluated by health outcomes rather than only biomarkers.

Incidentally, lactose intolerance is one of the causes of bloating with milk.

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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Postby circular » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:46 pm

Thanks for all that explanation Searcher! Interesting stuff. I understand your position.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.


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