Verax wrote:I don't want to go on a completely gluten-free diet the rest of my life unless I have to
Certainly that is your choice. But are you aware Dr Bredesen advocates eliminating gluten. In his book, The End of Alzheimer's on page 46 of 308, kindle location 706 of 4911 he provides a list of foods containing high gluten to which he writes, "all of which are to be avoided as much as possible."
Verax wrote:Dr Gundry should specify and quantify his biomarkers.
If you're referring to lectins, Dr Gundry uses adiponectin to determine if sensitivity exists, although that can be masked by obesity. And he uses TNF-alpha to measure the inflammation from lectins, (we've discussed this in the past, for more info use the search function). He uses a plethora of biomarkers for various sources of inflammation as well as biomarkers for numerous other physical conditions. I had 20 vials of blood drawn for him for my last consult.
Is it possible that Dr. Gundry is just out to make a quick buck? He admits that his patients give up to a dozen vials of blood for testing every couple of months at his clinic. Overtesting is common practice in supplement-driven clinics. This extensive testing, (which are another topic), is almost always used to demonstrate some type of nutritional pathology, which of course can only be corrected by taking the suggested supplements. And of course, Dr. Gundry sells supplements, including “Lectin Shield” for about $80 a month.
I struggle with what Medicare authorizes and pays for, sorry. I do take some supplements but I do require some evidence they do something other than make me feel better. In my case, lectins don't make me feel bad, and I don't perceive that either Dr Gundry or Dr Bredeson can give me evidence that lectins harm or other expensive supplements help, so I am slow to follow their medical advice. I hope at least they don't stand in the way of more rigorous scientific investigation. BTW, perhaps Stavia would do well for readers to provide a more balanced precis of Dr Gundry's protocol in the wiki, and include some published criticism as the above.
Is it possible that Dr. Gundry is just out to make a quick buck? He admits that his patients give up to a dozen vials of blood for testing every couple of months at his clinic. Overtesting is common practice in supplement-driven clinics.
Dr Gundry has never said I had to take any of his supplements, he's never tried to sell his supplements in any of my consults with him. He has mentioned a supplement of his that might address a certain condition, but no expectations. I'm thinking if he was in it for the money, he wouldn't have given up his lucrative surgery practice. He's relayed a story that the day he decided to quit cutting the disease out of people and help people restore their health through diet and supplements is the day his wife refers to as "Black Friday" because of the impact on income.
Is it possible that Dr. Gundry is just out to make a quick buck? He admits that his patients give up to a dozen vials of blood for testing every couple of months at his clinic. Overtesting is common practice in supplement-driven clinics. This extensive testing, (which are another topic), is almost always used to demonstrate some type of nutritional pathology, which of course can only be corrected by taking the suggested supplements. And of course, Dr. Gundry sells supplements, including “Lectin Shield” for about $80 a month.
I struggle with what Medicare authorizes and pays for, sorry. I do take some supplements but I do require some evidence they do something other than make me feel better. In my case, lectins don't make me feel bad, and I don't perceive that either Dr Gundry or Dr Bredeson can give me evidence that lectins harm or other expensive supplements help, so I am slow to follow their medical advice. I hope at least they don't stand in the way of more rigorous scientific investigation. BTW, perhaps Stavia would do well for readers to provide a more balanced precis of Dr Gundry's protocol in the wiki, and include some published criticism as the above.
I am not very experienced with the nuances of the Gundry protocol as I don't follow it, and I am not the author of the wiki article.
My personal take is that it is an interesting theory, it seems to be well suited to some people, and some of his advice is sensible. I await published peer reviewed evidence on his lectin theory, preferably confirmed by independent researchers. It seems unlikely that he will publish his full data though. However - if I had an autoimmune disease such as Hashimotos, I would trial his full protocol for 3 to 6 months and see if my thyroxine requirement decreased.
My bottom line personally is there is not enough evidence proving his theory, but there is no evidence disproving it either. So I am neutral currently.
I wouldn't be concerned about it much but on a recent colonoscopy the doc found inflammation, and any inflammation not addressed worries me as E3/E4, so I want to deal with it. I am not concerned about leaky gut or lectins, but I don't want to go on a completely gluten-free diet the rest of my life unless I have to, as I am told even a small amount of gluten can upset things, and gluten contaminates a lot of "gluten-free" food.
Sorry, you’re dealing with GI inflammation, Verax.
So instead of eliminating without evidence nutritious food groups, and rejecting scientific and technical help, maybe we can link susceptible individuals and their phenomes and microbiomes with genomes of food to achieve a more personalized precision nutrigenomics and the biomarkers to follow and treat.
Just curious, what nutrients do you think that you can only get from wheat that you can’t get from other vegetables?
As my Swedish grandmother used to say -"maybe both sides are right in a debate".
Lectins are certainly asscotiated with longevity as people from Ikara Greece, Nicoya Costa Rica, and Loma Linda California (Blue Zones) must eat a lot of them.
I also know they cause inflammation in some people that Dr. Gundry treats and they cause eczema and sore joints in me. It may be a case of "Hormesis" that effects some more strongly than others. My total shot in the dark hypothesis is that those who are from areas of the world that have eaten grains for many years would have a high tolerance of lectins while those from the far north or those that have eaten an animal food based diet would be more effected by lectins. It or something strongly associated with lectins obviously has some effect on some people's immune system. To deny that is calling people liars.
Kenny4/4 wrote:
I also know they cause inflammation in some people that Dr. Gundry treats and they cause eczema and sore joints in me.
FYI Kenny, I used to have eczema until I read it's associated with staph on the skin. Since I've had staph colonizations in my sinuses, this made a lot of sense. I promptly ditched my commercial shampoo and switched to Mother Dirt shampoo and a fermented soap and a lotion that seemed skin biome friendly (Mother Dirt's lotion is very expensive and doesn't last long). I never had another eczema rash...
Combining your experience with lectins and eczema and mine with skin biome and eczema, I wonder if lectins interact with biomes differently in different people. This would be very interesting and not surprising. Maybe this is in Dr. Gundry's book? I haven't read it yet.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
Kenny4/4 wrote:
I also know they cause inflammation in some people that Dr. Gundry treats and they cause eczema and sore joints in me.
FYI Kenny, I used to have eczema until I read it's associated with staph on the skin. Since I've had staph colonizations in my sinuses, this made a lot of sense. I promptly ditched my commercial shampoo and switched to Mother Dirt shampoo and a fermented soap and a lotion that seemed skin biome friendly (Mother Dirt's lotion is very expensive and doesn't last long). I never had another eczema rash...
Combining your experience with lectins and eczema and mine with skin biome and eczema, I wonder if lectins interact with biomes differently in different people. This would be very interesting and not surprising. Maybe this is in Dr. Gundry's book? I haven't read it yet.
I don't know.
Some soaps (Basis) helped my eczema, rash, inflammation or whatever it (is) was but they did not eliminate it. I saw a 30% reduction in symptoms with a change in soaps. I have had a 100% reduction with eliminating grains,beans and legumes and I can use whatever soap I want. My skin is perfectly smooth when eating clean and I can elicit a response quite quickly and dramatically by eating the aforementioned foods. My shot in the dark guess is that maybe the lectins or something else in those foods attaches to the staph and creates an immune response. This is similar to the milk protein theory in type 1 diabetes.
I can't help but notice the name of the soap or lotion you mention that helps as "Mother Dirt". Hospitals struggle with staph infections despite their sterlility.
Maybe "Mother Dirt" or dirt in general has bacteria that keeps staph from out competeing or overpopulating?
TheresaB wrote:
Certainly that is your choice. But are you aware Dr Bredesen advocates eliminating gluten. In his book, The End of Alzheimer's on page 46 of 308, kindle location 706 of 4911 he provides a list of foods containing high gluten to which he writes, "all of which are to be avoided as much as possible."
What's the logic here? is there any evidence or even a theoretical model underlying the recommendation? Wouldn't we see bifurcation in LOAD incidence between rice eating and wheat eating 4/4s in Asia if gluten were a factor?
TheresaB wrote:
Certainly that is your choice. But are you aware Dr Bredesen advocates eliminating gluten. In his book, The End of Alzheimer's on page 46 of 308, kindle location 706 of 4911 he provides a list of foods containing high gluten to which he writes, "all of which are to be avoided as much as possible."
What's the logic here? is there any evidence or even a theoretical model underlying the recommendation? Wouldn't we see bifurcation in LOAD incidence between rice eating and wheat eating 4/4s in Asia if gluten were a factor?
It is a guess IMO. There is bifurcation in LOAD incedence in Nigerian Africans and African Americans. Africans eat more root vegetables and rice but the variables actually effecting the bifurcation of incedence can't be weeded out as they may be genetic, enviromental or other diet related variables.
What is clear is that some people have an increase in inflammation from eating lectin associated foods. The chain of thought is inflammation = increased risk of Heart Disease and or inflammation = increased risk of Alzheimer's. Nothing has been conclusivly proven but then again very very little in the case of Alzheimer's has been proven to effectively mitigate risk. We are all guessing on most of this.
