Lectins and their benefits

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Orangeblossom
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Post by Orangeblossom »

I feel Ok after having some lectins in the diet. I wonder if as mentioned it is an individual thing? and also maybe cooking them would get rid of most of the bad stuff and leave the good points?
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TheresaB
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Post by TheresaB »

Orangeblossom wrote:I feel Ok after having some lectins in the diet. I wonder if as mentioned it is an individual thing? and also maybe cooking them would get rid of most of the bad stuff and leave the good points?
Given what I wrote earlier in this post, if you’ve eaten pretty clean, unprocessed, non-GMO, organic food and have stayed away from NSAIDS and Stomach Acid Reducers most of your life, and you've never eaten many lectin containing foods, (like how people used to eat 60 years ago) then I think there’s a good chance you don’t have much of an issue reacting with lectins. But as I also wrote previously, I didn’t notice issues associated with lectin sensitivity, yet my blood tests revealed being very reactive and elevated inflammation levels. Eliminating lectins resulted in my inflammatory markers going nice and low, a lovely thing for an ApoE4.

Searcher is concerned about fiber, but I get plenty of fiber by following Dr Teri Wahl’s protocol of eating 3 of each daily: 1/3 greens, 1/3 sulfur, and 1/3 colors (see picture), I just eliminate the vegetables with lectins! So I get PLENTY of fiber. I follow Dr Gundry’s Plant Paradox Yes/No Food list. A link to that list can be found here https://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic ... dox#p40028 He also has a Keto Plant Paradox Yes/No Food list, but I maintain mild ketosis by following the less restrictive list. FYI the additional advice Dr Gundry gives ApoE4s can be found in the Wiki. https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Dr_Gundry%27s_Protocol

I do miss some of the luscious vegetable foods that contain lectins, I used to grow my own tomatoes every summer. But as Dr Gundry says, we react negatively to these foods because these are the foods that man only “recently” started eating, evolutionarily speaking, so genetically our bodies still perceive these foods as “foreign invaders” thus resulting in the inflammatory reaction and subsequent autoimmune diseases. I’m guessing since autoimmune diseases develop slowly and silently, the link to lectins has gone largely unnoticed.

Lastly, cooking does not remove lectins, soaking does not remove lectins, only pressure cooking removes lectins and this is only true for the beans and vegetables, this is not hold true for oats, grains, etc., pressure cooking does not remove those lectins. (Do an advanced search for “Instant Pot” a pressure cooker, and you’ll see it's been discussed many times in these forums :D ). We pressure cook tomatoes for meals periodically. For my birthday I had a wonderful meal of pressure cooked garbanzo beans for some Chana Masala accompanied by cassava flour (no lectins) flatbread, YUM! Since we’re also watching our glycemic load, we typically don’t pressure cook beans or other vegetables that contain lectins, but we do use our pressure cooker for cooking quite regularly.
We stay away from grains all together and only use flours, flaxseed meal, and other substitutes that don’t contain lectins. When encountering a situation where avoiding lectins is problematic, like meeting friends for lunch, I take a product called "Lectin Shield" beforehand, to bind to the lectins in my salad.
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SusanJ
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Post by SusanJ »

Searcher, the whole lectin thing is a lot more nuanced than "lectins are bad". Various types of lectins exist in all living things, including humans!

I think Gundry is basing his recommendations on his own experience and results of patients, like Theresa's stellar labs.

But, I have yet to see where he gets his references for the yes-eat-this, no-not-that lists. For example, he keeps calling cashews a legume (to be avoided) when they are a drupe, and recommends walnuts, which are high in aglutinins, one type of not-so-nice lectin. I think that his use of lectin is somewhat imprecise, but probably just helps to make it easier for people to accept his food recommendations.

I think the most scientific look at lectins, with references, has to be posts by Sarah Ballantyne. Here's one on lectins themselves: https://www.thepaleomom.com/lectins-bad/. It's a nuanced look at which types of lectins could be problematic. She also talks specifically about nightshades, which are worth eliminating if you have an autoimmune disease. (https://www.thepaleomom.com/the-whys-be ... -protocol/) If you search her site you'll see other posts about lectins.

Even she admits, "Until a systematic analysis is performed of all plant lectins and their physiological effects, the foods advocated and restricted on a paleo diet really only represents our best guess based on what is known so far."

So, it's probably worth eliminating the ones that seem to cause problems for people (grains, legumes) for a month. If you have an autoimmune disease, get rid of nightshades, too. See how you feel. Then, put them back in one per week and see if you react. If you react, that is probably a food to not eat, or at least minimize and watch carefully in your diet.

Good luck!
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Post by Julie G »

Searcher is concerned about fiber, but I get plenty of fiber by following Dr Teri Wahl’s protocol of eating 3 of each daily.
I concur. When I eat two meals a day, I can easily get to 50 grams of fiber a day... without my high lectin veggies :oops:
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Post by Searcher »

Thanks for all the info and practical tips.

Yet to find population-based cohort studies on low lectin vs high lectin. But there are many cohort studies on whole grain intake (which is a kind of proxy for lectin intake).

One meta-analysis included 45 cohort studies. The studies included 7068 cases of coronary heart disease, 2337 cases of stroke, 26 243 cases of cardiovascular disease, 34 346 deaths from cancer, and 100 726 all cause deaths. The number of participants ranged from 245 012 to 705 253.

"There were reductions of 21%, 16%, 11%, and 18%, respectively, in the relative risk of coronary heart disease, cardiovascular disease, total cancer, and all cause mortality for the highest versus lowest category of whole grain intake. ...

Inverse associations were also observed for the association between whole grains and mortality from respiratory disease, 6617 deaths, 632 849 participants, diabetes (808 deaths, 632 849 participants), infectious diseases (1386 deaths, 512 839 participants), and non-cardiovascular, non-cancer causes (25 697 deaths, 640 065 participants) but not for diseases of the nervous system (2285 deaths, 145 397 participants)."

Remarkably, whole grain intakes of under 90 g/day appeared to increase the risk of mortality from diseases of the nervous system. But at higher whole grain intakes, this increase disappeared or was even reversed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4908315/

The adverse effects of lectins appear to be outweighed by the health benefits from other constituents of the whole grains.

Auto-immune diseases are conspicuously absent from the analyses. If I developed any signs of an auto-immune disease, I might well be more concerned about the adverse effects of lectins. Meanwhile, otherwise healthy lectin-containing foods seem to be good for the cardiovascular system, and therefore the brain.
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

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Searcher you raise important points from an important perspective. I think if you take anyone on the processed, refined SID (standard industrialized diet: just made that up for our international forum) and switch them to a whole foods diet, it will improve their overall health significantly.

But it turns out there’s a much larger sub- population that needs to be concerned about lectins than those with or at risk of autoimmune illness. Anyone with chronic inflammatory response syndrome (CIRS) will possibly (?) or probably (?) have issues with lectins. Although I’m afraid I’m not the one to explicate that, and I may be incorrect making that connection, it’s my ‘sense’ that once the immune system is rendered dysfunctional/dysregulated by one thing, it becomes more vulnerable to further destabilization by something else that’s inflammatory. This subpopulation needs significant downregulation of inflammation.

It’s estimated that about 1/4 of people have HLA genetics making them susceptible to varying degrees to mold and other types of CIRS illnesses, and many of us here are struggling with lives that have been severely impacted by them. Most likely a good number of our members have AI diseases too but they’re not discussed as much.

In describing her own relationship with lectins Julie could have been describing mine as well, except that instead of increasing pain, they give me bloating, lethargy and brain fog, and some will do a good job tying up my digestion. I periodically adopt your perspective when I just plain want 1/4 cup (uncooked) oatmeal, or a little hummus, or a cup of lentil soup. It seems to take the edge off my concern about eating lectins, but then I’m concerned that I’m deceiving myself, until I focus on the healthy aspects of what I’m eating again. In the end it sure was good oatmeal, for example, and I won’t crave it again for a long while :D

I think Theresa’s right that context matters a lot, and I tend to think that one, maybe even me, can bring about enough systemic healing to find their own sweet spot with lectins. I suspect for me that will always mean no gluten, peppers, eggplant, or cashews for me (whatever the classification of cashews), because in my case since childhood they’ve been so impervious to digestion. In me they’ll probably always impair the first thing that needs healing for sensitive individuals to safely handle whatever ignites their immune system.

This makes me wonder ... Dr Gundry eliminates lectins that have been more recently introduced into our diet from an evolutionary perspective, but if it’s actually the case that lectin sensitive people aren’t sensitive to all these lectins, but just to their own unique subgroup, you wouldn’t find that out by having them eliminate all lectins, seeing symptoms improve, and then concluding they need to eliminate the whole group because their symptoms improved that way. I know Dr Gundry does say to get better and then see what you can get away with. I do think there’s practical wisdom in eliminating the category if one is inflammatory in order to remove all reasonably potential offenders, and then slowly adding items back in once well. I don’t know if TNF-a is the only inflammatory marker an offending lectin food might raise. I’d suspect some individuals might respond on some other pathway (?).
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Post by Searcher »

Thanks, circular.

There may well be a longer list of lectin-affected conditions than just auto-immune or CIRS conditions. That's very true.

Symptoms and biomarkers are part of the picture. They can raise red or green flags.

However, the known biomarkers today are only a subset of all relevant biomarkers. As science progresses, the list of recognized biomarkers keeps growing. So does our understanding of interactions between various systems in the body, and the significance of various biomarkers.

Mortality and disability in the longer term are outcomes rather than markers. They reflect known biomarkers and systems as well as currently undiscovered ones. It's possible to have excellent biomarkers and poor health outcomes, or the reverse. And it's possible for guidelines about biomarkers (or healthy eating) to be updated or reversed as knowledge and understanding accumulate.

That's why I keep looking for population-based evidence of mortality and/or lasting disability. Not just with lectins in food, but with any interventions or lifestyle choices. The goal is to reduce the risk of premature mortality and/or lasting disability. That goal remains constant through everything.
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Post by circular »

Very well put Searcher, thank you. That big picture is very important. One thing I've been wondering ... when looking at all cause mortality and morbidity, I assume morbidity includes cognitive outcomes but not mortality? In other words, just looking at all cause mortality in a large study probably isn't useful if one is trying to tease out what's good for cognition; but looking at all cause morbidity could be helpful. This is part of a larger question I have as to whether what's good for longevity will end up automatically being good for cognition. I think some are making that leap, but I don't know the literature well at all to know what to make of that.
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Post by candi15 »

I was at first a little sceptical when I came across Dr Gundry but I did end up buying the book which I thought made a lot of sense. I decided to try cutting out as many lectins as was possible and it has had a dramatic effect on me for the better. Last year this time I had several allergy problems, I had really bad hayfever since I was a child but over the last 4-5 years had developed allergic ashma, dog allergy, mold allergies and was starting to feel as if everything was going seriously downhill. I was on steroid inhalers and various other tablets and sprays which at the very best marginally kept my symptoms in check. Since getting really quite serious about cutting out lectins all my allergies have dissapeared.
I did try introducing some of (only small amount) the banned foods and immediately started having symptoms again.......so I'm sticking with it.
It may not work for everyone but I thought I would add my personal experience.....but would be very interested to hear other peoples experiences...either positive or negative with this.
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Re: Lectins and their benefits

Post by circular »

candi thanks for contributing your experience. That's why many of us here talk about n=1. That goes completely against the conventional approach to lifestyle guidance, but so many individuals find they must be among the many outliers, that if I understand it right, are part and parcel of the statistics but widely ignored if a conventionally accepted protocol doesn't support the individual experience. I partly understand that, because there is no doubt that at the individual level there must be collectively millions of examples of individuals comes to the wrong conclusions. I do really appreciate Searcher's contribution here, because it's important to remember what has been shown at the population level. This may well appropriately guide public health initiatives and help clinicians adopt a dietary stance that will benefit many significantly. The disconnect happens when individual experiences that don't fit the model, and are in fact accurate descriptions of the patient's own health and experience, are attributed by doctors to anxiety, neuroticism, imagination and the like ... not to mention gender. It's a complex intersection of perspectives but a challenge that needs to be embraced from both sides.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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