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Re: RE: Re: Proof that MCT causes insulin resistance?

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:23 am
by Searcher
Stavia wrote:Searcher, it compared human outcome to mouse outcomes. And they had a surprising result.


Stavia, this study did not include any mice, only humans. However, previous mouse studies were referred to as part of the context/background and in setting the hypothesis examined.

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Proof that MCT causes insulin resistance?

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:24 am
by Stavia
Searcher wrote:
Stavia wrote:Searcher, it compared human outcome to mouse outcomes. And they had a surprising result.


Stavia, this study did not include any mice, only humans. However, previous mouse studies were referred to as part of the context/background and in setting the hypothesis examined.
Yup. Surprising huh!

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Re: Proof that MCT causes insulin resistance?

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:37 am
by Orangeblossom
Searcher wrote:Orange, the strongest level of evidence about saturated fat vs unsaturated fat, and insulin resistance/glucose metabolism, comes from randomized controlled trials. All such trials known were included in a meta-analysis, which was cited above in this thread.



Yes I have read that study and the summary states

"The findings suggest exchanging dietary carbohydrate with saturated fat does not appreciably influence markers of blood glucose control."

"On the other hand, substituting carbohydrate and saturated fat with a diet rich in unsaturated fat, particularly polyunsaturated fat, was beneficial for the regulation of blood sugar."

"Conclusions

This meta-analysis of randomised controlled feeding trials provides evidence that dietary macronutrients have diverse effects on glucose-insulin homeostasis. In comparison to carbohydrate, SFA, or MUFA, most consistent favourable effects were seen with PUFA, which was linked to improved glycaemia, insulin resistance, and insulin secretion capacity."

So hardly very conclusive there either in terms of sat fats causing problems, more about PUFAs improving things :?

Re: Proof that MCT causes insulin resistance?

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:58 am
by Searcher
Orange, carbs and saturated fats have similar (unhelpful) effects on insulin resistance / glucose metabolism.

By contrast, unsaturated fats have beneficial effects on IR / glucose metabolism (plus a host of other benefits when taken as unrefined and natural foods).

Unless someone was extremely attached to saturated fats, I would recommend that they try a shift toward unsaturated fats in order to improve their insulin sensitivity and limit hyperglycemia. Preferably as part of delicious recipes, so that the shift becomes easier, sustainable and more of a celebration than a punishment.

Re: Proof that MCT causes insulin resistance?

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:24 am
by Orangeblossom
Searcher wrote:Orange, carbs and saturated fats have similar (unhelpful) effects on insulin resistance / glucose metabolism.

By contrast, unsaturated fats have beneficial effects on IR / glucose metabolism (plus a host of other benefits when taken as unrefined and natural foods).

Unless someone was extremely attached to saturated fats, I would recommend that they try a shift toward unsaturated fats in order to improve their insulin sensitivity and limit hyperglycemia. Preferably as part of delicious recipes, so that the shift becomes easier, sustainable and more of a celebration than a punishment.


No, I wouldn't have thought saturated fats would improve insulin sensitivity either. I don't think it is possible to say based on the research that they have a negative effect either.

Overall I think the main problem with IR is too much high GI carbs. That is the main thing to avoid. It seems maybe a range of fats might be a good idea, from whole sources rather than processed. That is my own belief anyway after reading all the research. I don't think it is helpful to focus too much on banning one type of fat when looking at whole, unprocessed foods anyway.

Re: Proof that MCT causes insulin resistance?

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:35 pm
by Searcher
Orangeblossom wrote:It seems maybe a range of fats might be a good idea, from whole sources rather than processed.


Orange, the science is on your side when you prefer whole sources rather than processed fats. That's because many natural sources of fat include a mixture of saturated and unsaturated fats. The unsaturated fats offer some protection from the adverse effects of saturated fats on glucose metabolism / insulin resistance.

I keep telling people I mentor that the best healthy eating habits are the ones they can stick with for years, preferably with meals forming part of social occasions. Because eating well is only one (very important) strand in the web of well-being, and food is only one (very important) part of a great meal.

When fasting, it's still possible to join people at the table as they enjoy a meal. To feed one's joy.

Re: Proof that MCT causes insulin resistance?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:30 am
by Orangeblossom
Searcher wrote:
Orangeblossom wrote:It seems maybe a range of fats might be a good idea, from whole sources rather than processed.


Orange, the science is on your side when you prefer whole sources rather than processed fats. That's because many natural sources of fat include a mixture of saturated and unsaturated fats. The unsaturated fats offer some protection from the adverse effects of saturated fats on glucose metabolism / insulin resistance.

I keep telling people I mentor that the best healthy eating habits are the ones they can stick with for years, preferably with meals forming part of social occasions. Because eating well is only one (very important) strand in the web of well-being, and food is only one (very important) part of a great meal.

When fasting, it's still possible to join people at the table as they enjoy a meal. To feed one's joy.


I agree, it is important for us to do something we can stick with for years. I tried cutting out sat fats and eating things like low fat yoghurt instead of whole, skimmed instead of whole organic milk and cutting cheese out but I missed it all. So have compromised and now have small amounts of these as part of a overall diet filled with unprocessed foods, lots of veggies etc and my bloods showed high HDL, low trigs and LDL, and low / normal HBA1C, which my GP and I are happy with for now. I would prefer to cut out processed carbs, things like too much polyunsaturared fats (especially spreads) and sugars, I think that has more impact on my health than cutting out the foods I enjoy and which also can have vitamins and nutrients which are beneficial as well.

Re: Proof that MCT causes insulin resistance?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:39 am
by SusanJ
Smart approach, Orange.

Re: Proof that MCT causes insulin resistance?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:55 pm
by alangreenmd
Hi Apod,
Great post, "Contrasting metabolic effects of medium-versus long-chain fatty acids in skeletal muscle." 2013.
In studies about Blue zones there was suggestion of high consumption of medium chain fatty acids; but I could not find good paper.

For anybody who didn't read paper posted by Apod, here is conclusion; "our study revealed that MFAs increase oxidative metabolism at the level of the mitochondrion in muscle. furthermore, in contrast to LCFAs, MCFAs prevent the induction of oxidative stress that normally arises due to excess lipid intake."
Also excellent list references.

Thanks for posting great paper.

Re: Proof that MCT causes insulin resistance?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:39 pm
by alangreenmd
After study posted by apod and this paper, I don't think this paper has meaningful information because 3 days. Think need to do 6 weeks or 3 month study. Probably did 3 day study and not 3 month study because of concern about harm to participants.
So for people who favor middle length fatty acids, this study not reason to change favorable opinion.