Associations of protein and fiber with Amyloid-β

[Roamingseer]

High dietary protein intake associated with lower AD risk: http://www.theherald.com.au/story/52450 ... mers-risk/ “Those with the highest consumption, about 118g a day, were 12 times less likely to have high levels of Ab (Amyloid beta) than those in the lowest consumption group, who ate only 54g of protein a day.”

I’ve never seen this recommendation and wondered if any else has some thoughts on this.

[apod]

118g seems relatively tame to be considered the "highest consumption" level. This table comes to mind for the recommended protein intakes from 8 peer-reviewed scientific journal articles: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... /table/T1/

~1.5g/kg is around the recommended intake from the sports literature for active individuals (it's actually toward the lower end of the recommended intake scale), which is ~110g/d for a 160lb individual. Higher intakes still in line with optimal intake recommendations could be upwards of 145g/d. This paper went around recently, looking at intakes closer to 250+ grams per day: https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jnme/2016/9104792/ & https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4617900/

I would be curious if higher protein intakes are associated with higher levels of physical activity / fitness, where there's maybe lower AD risk in spite of the protein intake rather than as a result of the intake. I've read that protein intakes tend to go up when people try to practice caloric restriction and vice versa, where maybe there's effect related to energy balance (or simply less carb in the diet.)

This does make me feel a little safer about my occasional intra-workout BCAA habit and often protein-rich diet.

[Orangeblossom]

It seemed quite high to me, but then I don't eat that much anyway.

I think with all diet studies it is really important to look at the other things they are eating too. Most things are bad with high GI carbs. It would be useful to see the details of the full diet before making further judgements.

And yes exercise would some into it too, I expect with people doing more muscle building exercise possibly requiring more protein.

[TheBrain]

I need more protein in my diet than the usual calculations based on weight call for. (I don’t recall specific numbers, but I checked this out when I was using chronometer a while back.) In my case, the two mycotoxins that were “extraordinarily high” in my urine (my FM paractitioner’s latest description of my test results) interfere with protein synthesis. Maybe that’s why. I need to eat three times a day, and I need animal/fish protein at each meal.

[Roamingseer]

@apod Thank you for the links. One difficulty here is determining how much protein is optimal for one’s health. I eat vegan (non-processed foods) with lots of pulses (fairly high in protein) with some fish (2-3 times/wk: sardines, salmon) & solo road cycle (~18-21mph avg) for about 7-10h/wk (135mi-200mi/wk). A quick calculation shows me that my protein use is ~1.2g/kg, 85g/d (I weigh 160#), but I know many people taking large amounts of whey protein who are encouraged by supplement manufacturers & their surrogates (magazines, web, etc.) to increase their protein with no downside stated. But there is a downside of up regulating IGF-1, see https://source.wustl.edu/2006/12/does-t ... ncer-risk/.

This stuff is really tricky since the original paper I quoted is a meta study & does not have much granularity, but I am surprised that this associating wasn’t mentioned in Dale Bredesen’s, End of Alzheimer’s, book, which i’ve Been following the recode protocol since 11/17. And besides individual characteristics, my exercise goals are longer term, not individual performances. This study makes me question if I shouldn’t increase my protein to 1.5g/kg. I am APOE3/4.

[aphorist]

I wonder if they can control for B12 intake and/or other vitamins associated with increased protein intake.

I have a 3/4 family member who religiously eats a high protein, atkins like diet and refuses to listen to any advice to the contrary. "This is what I feel best on. I cannot eat low protein. I'm not avoiding saturated fat." Of course, their HDL is in the gutter at 26 mg/dL, so there's that.

I think the key is probably going through periods of fasting like a Valter Longo 5 day fasting mimicking diet. I think I need to be doing that once a month and not worrying about the daily diet as much -- higher daily protein intake with a 5 day monthly fast, is probably what I will aim for in the short run.

[Roamingseer]

@apod Thank you for the links. One difficulty here is determining how much protein is optimal for one’s health. I eat vegan (non-processed foods) with lots of pulses (fairly high in protein) with some fish (2-3 times/wk: sardines, salmon) & solo road cycle (~18-21mph avg) for about 7-10h/wk (135mi-200mi/wk). A quick calculation shows me that my protein use is ~1.2g/kg, 85g/d (I weigh 160#), but I know many people taking large amounts of whey protein who are encouraged by supplement manufacturers & their surrogates (magazines, web, etc.) to increase their protein with no downside stated. But there is a downside of up regulating IGF-1, see https://source.wustl.edu/2006/12/does-t ... ncer-risk/.

This stuff is really tricky since the original paper I quoted is a meta study & does not have much granularity, but I am surprised that this association wasn’t mentioned in Dale Bredesen’s, End of Alzheimer’s, book, which I’ve been following his ReCode protocol since 11/17. And besides individual characteristics, my exercise goals are longer term, not individual performances. This study makes me question if I shouldn’t increase my protein to 1.5g/kg. I am APOE3/4.

[RJones]

It's nice to see some pro-protein research results!

I was kind of disappointed with Valter Longo's book. I think he is more biased against animal products than the evidence justifies. He advocates eating low protein when you're young and then boosting it when you're older, maybe it was over 70. I went back and looked at his research paper that was the basis for his opinion, and the evidence didn't strike me as strong. There is a statistical problem in testing "too many hypotheses" -- you're likely to get false positives. The evidence needs to be pretty overwhelming to convince me that I should be doing something really different at age 70 than I'm doing at age 50.

Despite that skepticism, I can believe that it's a good idea not to go overboard on the protein intake, and generally I suspect that fasting and intermittent fasting are good ideas.

"Fwiw", I think Mr. Mangan at roguehealthandfitness.com is a great resource. He's an amateur, but in the best sense of the word. He has opinions and biases, but he acknowledges evidence against his position. And he was forward-thinking enough to feature Dr. Green as a guest.

One of Mangan's favorite theories is that it is good to keep your iron / ferritin concentration low, which can be done simply by donating blood once or twice per year. His book "Dumping Iron" lays out the story. It's easy to read but still cites the relevant scientific publications.

[Julie G]

This stuff is really tricky since the original paper I quoted is a meta study & does not have much granularity, but I am surprised that this associating wasn’t mentioned in Dale Bredesen’s, End of Alzheimer’s, book, which i’ve Been following the recode protocol since 11/17.

FWIW, I shared this paper with him several days ago and haven't received a response yet. I've been privileged to work with his wife, Dr. Aida LaSheen, on creating the guidelines for the KetoFlex 12/3 Diet and protein recommendations were one of our biggest topics of contention. Dr. Bredesen is decidedly in favor of low protein for longevity purposes. That said, we suspect that as people age, their guts become damaged and they're unable to efficient metabolize and utilize protein, hence the evidence suggesting more is beneficial as we age. Therefore, his recommendations for low protein (1 gram or less of protein per kilogram of lean body weight per day) are geared towards those with optimal health without extra demands such as strenuous work or bodybuilding. Those who are unwell, dealing with damaged guts, infections, other health issues, may very well need more until health can be optimized.

[Stavia]

Julie, I agree with you about a nuanced approach to protein intake. Logically it cannot be a one size fits all. And there has to be a sweet spot that will be individually determined. More n=1 huh.

I thought about situations where one could overly restrict protein and impair one's health and came up with strength training, those with high muscle mass, intercurrent illness, post surgery, wound healing, pregnancy, leaky gut (?). Can anyone think of others?

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