Vitamin C may be protective for E4 women

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Julie G
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Vitamin C may be protective for E4 women

Post by Julie G »

This one is interesting. High levels of vitamin C appeared to protect against cognitive decline in women E4 carriers only. I don't have access to full text to learn more.

Higher Blood Vitamin C Levels are Associated with Reduction of Apolipoprotein E E4-related Risks of Cognitive Decline in Women: The Nakajima Study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29758939
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Antioxidants like vitamins C and E may minimize the risk for Alzheimer's disease.
OBJECTIVE:
We examined whether vitamins C and E modify the apolipoprotein E (APOE) E4-related risks for developing cognitive decline.
METHODS:
We conducted a population-based prospective study including Japanese residents aged 65 years from Nakajima, Japan. The participants received an evaluation of cognitive function and underwent blood tests including tests for vitamins C and E levels and APOE phenotypes. The APOE E4-by-gender-by-vitamin C or E interactions on developing cognitive decline were analyzed.
RESULTS:
Of 606 participants with normal cognitive function determined using a baseline survey (2007-2008), 349 completed the follow up survey between 2014 and 2016. In women with APOE E4, significantly reduced risk for cognitive decline was observed for the highest blood vitamin C concentration tertile [multivariate OR 0.10 (95% CI 0.01-0.93)] compared with the lowest tertile. In men without APOE E4, significantly reduced risk for cognitive decline was observed for the highest blood vitamin E concentration tertile [multivariate OR 0.19 (0.05-0.74)] as compared with the lowest tertile.
CONCLUSION:
Our results demonstrate significant beneficial effects of vitamins C and E in reducing the risk of cognitive decline in women with APOE E4 and men without APOE E4, respectively.
circular
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Re: Vitamin C may be protective for E4 women

Post by circular »

Interesting. I've really flip-flopped on supplementing vitamin C, and I've always recalled Dr. Isaacson's book saying that vitamin E doesn't have good support for use in dementia prevention. Naturally genes and gender may explain the murky results!

Last evening I was reading this article about antioxidants, and I'd never realized:
Vitamin C is the major antioxidant in the blood; vitamin E is the vital antioxidant in cell membranes and lipoproteins. However, in the cell interior – where the real toxin war is being waged – the most important antioxidant is glutathione." Alan H. Pressman, D.C., Ph.D., C.C.N.
I had never really thought about antioxidants having specific domains in they body they 'specialize' in, except for those always mentioned in the context of mitochondrial redox.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Julie G
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Re: Vitamin C may be protective for E4 women

Post by Julie G »

Interesting. I've really flip-flopped on supplementing vitamin C, and I've always recalled Dr. Isaacson's book saying that vitamin E doesn't have good support for use in dementia prevention.
Me too! I'm anti "supplemental" C at the moment because I've read it can exacerbate oxalate sensitivity which is a thing for me... BUT I do eat a whole lime or lemon almost every day simply because I crave them I've used CHRON-O-meter to check my nutrient intake and I'm very high in Vitamin E. I think most of us eating a whole food diet are fine there. Getting enough Vitamin C, however (especially when you're low carb) can be trickier...
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Re: Vitamin C may be protective for E4 women

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I just found out that I have the COL3A1 gene for Ehlers Danilos type 4 which is a type III collagen deficiency. And finding out that supplementing with collagen isn’t very effective, however supplementing with liposomal Vitamin C may be effective as the body uses C to make collagen. I probably don’t quite get enough C...it gets harder as I am trying to transition to the Gundry lectin-free diet which excludes or limits most peppers and fruits. After having multiple collagen tissue related health issues, ( pelvic organ prolapse, hair loss, peridontitis, digestive motility issues, bloating, chronic constipation, orthostatic hypertentension, wrinkling, flabby loose skin, auras after fast weight loss) I’m now trying to get in at least 3 grams per day. I hope to find the lower Vitamin C being one of the be one of the ‘holes’ needing repaired. It also, of course, plays a major role in immunity and is excellent in fighting infections.

This Monday I’m going in to have the hysterectomy and prolapse repair. Just got hit last Sunday with a huge allergy attack and opted to treat it with extra C, zinc and Zyrtec instead of a ZPAK and oral steroids prescribed by my PCP. ( I didn’t want to go into major surgery with the gut flora already wiped out and compromised immune system). So far, no sinus infection and allergy seems to be under control. Yay for C! Should also help with healing afterwards.
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Re: Vitamin C may be protective for E4 women

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TWBD, another EDS gal! Me too. For some unknown reason, we have a bunch here. I'm sorry to hear that you're positive for Type-4. It's much better to know than be surprised. You have an opportunity to have regular screenings and be proactive. I have two brothers who've had vascular incidents (perforated aortic aneurysm & carotid dissection) in their early 30's, but I was negative for the COL3A1 defect. It's very interesting to hear about the Vitamin C connection to help with collagen issues. You have me re-thinking it now...

I've had the prolapse surgery and more. It's a big deal as you've likely figured out. Are you planning on using general anesthesia? The evidence is mixed, but some research suggests it's not a great idea for E4 carriers. I had a combo spinal and epidural and was able to avoid it... but no worries if you need it. I'll be sending good energy your way on Monday. -xo
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Re: Vitamin C may be protective for E4 women

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TWBD, count me in the ED spectrum under type III. Julie is so right about the value of being properly dx so you can be proactive. I'm sorry you have so much to think about with health. Having to overlay ApoE4 on top of connective tissue issues is so challenging. I had unrelated abdominal surgery a couple years ago. They said I did need general anesthesia, so I asked to have an appointment with the anesthesiologist before the surgery so I could discuss concerns. These concerns included both my ApoE4 status and my stretchy ligaments. I told him:

1) I wanted a cocktail the most protective of my brain, understanding of course that in surgery sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I didn't have one blip of a cognitive issue following the surgery (which my husband attests to), and the recovery nurse tried to warn me that I'd be forgetting things for a while.

2) Please don't open my mouth any wider than necessary for tubes, even if it will open really far, that my ligaments are easily overstretched and won't rebound.

I also emphasized the ligament issue with the surgeon so she would be 'mindful' of it with every aspect of transfer, positioning and procedure.

Keep us posted if you wish. You can use the Our Stories forum.

As to vitamin C, the connective tissue geneticist I saw last year said it can help some people. I think the dose used was 1000 mg, but they didn't try using higher doses or for longer. I don't have any further details and there may be a paper out there on it. I don't find it helps my connective tissues at all, but maybe it does moreso for type IV?

There is also high dose IV vitamin C to consider. Hmmm, maybe a trial round would be worth it.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Re: Vitamin C may be protective for E4 women

Post by Orangeblossom »

I wonder why there seemed to be a sex difference on the vitamins, intriguing. Vitamin E being more important for men and C for women. It also made me think (Vit C) of the post by Apod about the nutrient rich diet which included fruit, being neuroprotective. As fruit would be high in vitamin C.

It's not easy on low carb to eat too much fruit as it can be quite high in sugar, but there are ones which are better than others. Tropical fruit like bananas I avoid, for example. Apples and oranges, berries might be better depending on the amounts of carbs you are having a day I guess. Or supplements and veggies high in it also. I don;t drink fruit juice due to the sugar content but think fruit itself can be Ok depending on the type.
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Re: Vitamin C may be protective for E4 women

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I think even carefully portioned green bananas are useful for potassium and prebiotics. Some days it’s my only ‘strict’ carb and I stay in ketosis. Now that I eat green ones I can’t really don’t like the ripe, sweet ones.
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Re: Vitamin C may be protective for E4 women

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Yes, that's true the green ones are better aren't they. Thanks for the reminder ;-)
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Re: Vitamin C may be protective for E4 women

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Vitamin C is the major antioxidant in the blood; vitamin E is the vital antioxidant in cell membranes and lipoproteins. However, in the cell interior – where the real toxin war is being waged – the most important antioxidant is glutathione." Alan H. Pressman, D.C., Ph.D., C.C.N.
While the above may be true, it might be misleading to think of them as having separate domains and overlook how they work together. Dr. Russell Jaffee emphasizes how important ascorbic acid is in cellular health in supporting the other antioxidants, including glutathione, and the cellular detoxification by mitochondria of hormone disrupters, of well-known impact on women, pesticides and other toxins. IF I FOLLOWED HIM CORRECTLY, ascorbic acid protects cell membranes by picking up free radical electrons that were captured by Vitamin E or selenomethionine in the cell membrane and in turn supplying them to glutathione, which pass them on to FAD and NAD electron carriers to the mitochondria and are then used in the creation of ATP, all from something that could have been a free radical. While Vitamine E is necessary to catch free radicals, it is ascorbic acid that protects the membrane by taking the electrons and putting them to good use inside the cell and help in maintaining levels of CoQ10. Having passed the electron on, an ascorbic acid molecule is then returned or recycled to work as an antioxidant, lowering the need for additional ascorbic acid, but increasing glutathione within the cell.

See 21:00 and after: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtWyhmTan2w
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