Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

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RJones
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Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

Postby RJones » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:38 am

Dr. Rhonda Patrick has an impressive new paper. The takeaway is that APOE4s aren't as able to get DHA where it needs to go unless the DHA is in phospholipid form. This explains, she says, why most studies of fish oil supplements indicate no benefit, yet fish in the diet does show benefit.

Seems very important if true, and I'd guess it probably is. Takeaway: eat actual fish, or at least get a supplement that specifically includes DHA in phospholipid form.

https://twitter.com/foundmyfitness/stat ... 9971569664

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 37564.html

https://www.fasebj.org/doi/pdf/10.1096/fj.201801412R

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Re: Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

Postby jayredliner » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:55 am

Dr. Patrick notes, "...fish, fish roe, and krill oil contain DHA in phospholipid form to various extents, whereas DHA
supplements contain DHA in triglyceride or ethyl ester form..."


For someone, like myself, who doesn't eat fish, Krill oil seems to be the only alternative mentioned in the study - although Dr. Patrick doesn't mention if Krill oil supplements are different than 'pure' Krill oil.

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Re: Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

Postby RJones » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:06 am

There is a Nordic Naturals product labeled "Omega 3 Phospholipids":

https://www.nordicnaturals.com/consumer ... spholipids

That seems like a good bet to me, and I take it, for what it's worth, but I'm not a health care professional by any means.

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Re: Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

Postby circular » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:42 pm

RJones wrote:There is a Nordic Naturals product labeled "Omega 3 Phospholipids":

https://www.nordicnaturals.com/consumer ... spholipids

That seems like a good bet to me, and I take it, for what it's worth, but I'm not a health care professional by any means.

I use this too, and in fact I started a while back because I read that Dr. Patrick was using it. She's moved on to fish roe, and I really wonder what her thoughts are right now on this supplement.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

Postby Plumster » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:30 am

In the interview, she mentioned the International Fish Oil Standard (IFOS) http://consumer.nutrasource.ca/en/ifos/ and I noticed that Nordic Naturals aren't certified (yet).

In her recent fb post, she states this: "Fish oil and algae supplements do not contain phospholipid DHA so they generate less of the specific phospholipid form of DHA (called lysophosphatidylcholine DHA) that is important for brain transport in APOE4 carriers. However, DHA in algae and fish oil can generate some lysophosphatidylcholine DHA so it remains possible that a higher dose of DHA in those forms may markedly increase the DHA-lysoPC pool."
e3/4 MTHFR C677T/A1298C COMT V158M++ COMT H62H++ MTRR A66G ++ HLA DR

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Julie G
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Re: Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

Postby Julie G » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:53 am

Hmm, the fact that Rhonda was taking the product RJones spoke of may indicate she thinks it's an option for us. I did listen to a bit of a Joe Rogan podcast with her where she mentioned consuming salmon roe (instead) specifically because she was pregnant and trying to increase Omega-3s for her baby, particularly in the 3rd trimester for brain development. Now that she's given birth, my guess is that her regimen may have changed. I'm going to reach out and ask and will share any response I get.

Dr. Bredesen and I had an email exchange regarding this significant development for us. I found it very interesting and helpful to see this from his perspective. (I've added references for clarity.)
So it's just a suggestion, but multiple observations fit with the idea that ApoE4 enhances the response to inflammatory insults—again, great for Tsimane Indians, bad for older Americans/Europeans/etc. (a)

1) The MFI of Milan Fiala shows that those with AD do not phagocytose their Abeta.  I believe they are “keeping it active” in the circulation so it can exert its antimicrobial effect. (b)

2) Multiple genes’ transcription reduced by ApoE4 transcriptional effect lead to increased inflammation when they are reduced. (c)

3) The metabolism you mentioned—same net effect. (d)

4) The transport effect Rhonda mentioned—same net effect.  This may be related to #3 as an overall response but not necessarily by the same mechanism. (e)

So, as you mentioned, how do we counter these effects?

•Increase transportable omega-3 (fish or the formulation Rhonda mentioned).
•Increase dose of omega-3.
•Reduce all sources of inflammation, such as leaky gut.  As you’ve been doing, it’s key to reduce anything that would activate the hair trigger of ApoE4 to produce inflammation.
•Help resolve ongoing inflammation, even if modest, with a trial of resolvins. (f)
•Keep omega-6:omega-3 ratio optimal (about 2:1 in blood).  Avoid <1 (bleeding) and >4 or so.  Perhaps this should be reduced to 1:1 given that the brain may not see the same ratio?
•Target specific pathogens, as you are doing.
•Consider including other anti-inflammatories such as ginger and curcumin.
_____
a. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5349792/
b. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2955441/
c. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28879423
d. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210928/
e. https://www.fasebj.org/doi/10.1096/fj.201801412R
f. https://www.metagenics.com/spm-active (Recommended in The End of Alzheimer’s, pg. 199)

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Re: Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

Postby apod » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:07 am

A while back, I came across an interesting comparison of phosphatidylserine from soy / sunflower vs bovine sources. While the bovine form came with some risk of prions and the general ickiness of being a supplement from a cow's brain, it seemed to possess greater therapeutic potential. More recently, I've seen conjugated-PS-DHA from plant sources that seem to be on the same level as the bovine form. I've been on the lookout for a phospholipid form of DHA with a pinch of PS-DHA.

This was a study on rats taking the PS-DHA form vs fish oil, standard PS, and fish oil + standard PS: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19414058 -- Brain phospholipid docosahexaenoic acid levels increased significantly with PS-DHA only (tbh, there's very little DHA in these supplements, which makes the findings all the more interesting.)

I would be curious if there's any concern over the Neu5Gc content of fish roe (a complaint I've read about beef / red meat.) While ground beef and bison supply ~25-29ug/g of Neu5Gc, fish roe is in the 400-500ug/g range. From this perspective, a prophylactic 0.5oz serving of roe (which barely provides 1 gram of total polyunsaturated fats) would be about like eating a bison steak every day. https://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/n ... room/11551

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Re: Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

Postby BrianR » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:09 pm

Julie G wrote:Keep omega-6:omega-3 ratio optimal (about 2:1 in blood).  Avoid <1 (bleeding) and >4 or so.  Perhaps this should be reduced to 1:1 given that the brain may not see the same ratio?

Julie, is an omega-6:omega-3 ratio of 2 or less something that people regularly achieve with just a healthy diet?

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Re: Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

Postby circular » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:45 pm

BrianR wrote:
Julie G wrote:Keep omega-6:omega-3 ratio optimal (about 2:1 in blood).  Avoid <1 (bleeding) and >4 or so.  Perhaps this should be reduced to 1:1 given that the brain may not see the same ratio?

Julie, is an omega-6:omega-3 ratio of 2 or less something that people regularly achieve with just a healthy diet?

I had a 1:1 ratio when I was eating low mercury fish daily, but I had to cut back the low mercury fish when my mercury was too high. Since then my ratio hasn't been as good.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

Postby circular » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:50 pm

apod wrote:I would be curious if there's any concern over the Neu5Gc content of fish roe (a complaint I've read about beef / red meat.) While ground beef and bison supply ~25-29ug/g of Neu5Gc, fish roe is in the 400-500ug/g range. From this perspective, a prophylactic 0.5oz serving of roe (which barely provides 1 gram of total polyunsaturated fats) would be about like eating a bison steak every day. https://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/n ... room/11551

Thanks for bringing this up again. I mentioned it in another thread about Dr. Patrick's paper and had forgotten about it already myself. For now I'm comfortable with Nordic Naturals phospholipid omegas even if they're not (yet?) on the certified list. I think they're a good brand? At least the Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega was approved by ConsumerLab.com, who didn't happen to test their phospholipid form.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.


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