Dr. Rhonda: Get some DHA in phospholipid form

[bladedmind]

Much of the EPA and DHA in krill oil is bound to phospholipids, but EPA and DHA in krill oil is far lower in quantity than found in in an equivalent volume of regular fish oil with EPA and DHA bound to triglycerides. Perhaps one could combine krill oil with fish oil two to one - just loose speculation.

I have a worry about the Nordic Naturals Omega 3 Phospholipids product. The label says that it contains first herring roe extract and second anchovy and sardine oil. Further, two softgels contain 1.5 grams fat, 500 mg omega 3s, and 350 mg total phospholipids. The fat, omega 3, and phospholipid categories overlap. It is unclear what quantity of EPA and DHA bound in phospholipids is in the product, because not all herring roe omegas will be bound to phospholipids and none of the fish omegas will be. In other words, the label would be more informative if it told us the amount of EPA-phospholipid, DHA-phospholipid, EPA-trigylceride, DHA-triglyceride. The omegas bound to phospholipid could be quite low, in the worst case no better than krill oil.

The mere copresence of phospholipids aside omega 3s is unlikely to have the same good effect as when they are bound.

I never understood until now why the APOE 4/4 recommendation is primarily to eat fish (phospholipid), secondarily to supplement with fish oil (triglyceride).

Maybe I'm mistaken about the Nordic Naturals product, or I'm not mistaken but phospholipids are actually high. Glad to be corrected.

[circular]

I have a worry about the Nordic Naturals Omega 3 Phospholipids product. The label says that it contains first herring roe extract and second anchovy and sardine oil. Further, two softgels contain 1.5 grams fat, 500 mg omega 3s, and 350 mg total phospholipids. The fat, omega 3, and phospholipid categories overlap. It is unclear what quantity of EPA and DHA bound in phospholipids is in the product, because not all herring roe omegas will be bound to phospholipids and none of the fish omegas will be. In other words, the label would be more informative if it told us the amount of EPA-phospholipid, DHA-phospholipid, EPA-trigylceride, DHA-triglyceride. The omegas bound to phospholipid could be quite low, in the worst case no better than krill oil.

The mere copresence of phospholipids aside omega 3s is unlikely to have the same good effect as when they are bound.

Good observation. I've just emailed the person at NN who replied to me about the krill extract for clarification.

[bladedmind]

Continuing the discussion on the actual amount of phospholipid-bound DHA and EPA in products purporting to contain them.

In my post two entries above, I point out that the Nordic Naturals Phospholipid label and advertising material do not state the actual amount of phospholipid-bound DHA and EPA. in the product. Poster Circular in their post one entry above said they would email NN with the question.

Poster Apod above in this thread noticed the same issue with the Bulletproof Omega Krill Complex. It claims 1560 mg omega 3s and 100 mg phospholipid, the first-named ingredient is fish oil, the second krill, the third herring roe. There is no information about the quantities of phospholipid-bound DHA and EPA.

Poster Mike above asks about the Euromega-3 product. I did a little digging. The Euromedica company markets Euromega-3 to practitioners and - in the US via Terry Naturals -- the product Vectomaga-3 to the public. The products are identical. I queried of both. Euromega informed me that DHA:EPA were in in 2:1 ratio and did not answer when I asked again for the quantities of phospholipid-bound DHA and EPA. Terry Naturals sent me a product sheet with the information that that DHA:EPA were in in 2:1 ratio
http://www.euromedicausa.com/uploads/pr ... -Sheet.pdf

I replied to Terry Naturals as follows:

Thanks for your reply, but it seems to me that you haven't answered my question.

Take the capsule with 292 mg of the COMPLEX. DHA:EPA 2:1 ratio. So there is DHA at 195 mg and EPA at 97 mg?

That leaves no room for unbound phospholipids and for peptides. Phospholipids overlap with DHA and EPA. Are all phospholipids bound to EPA and DHA., or are some not? If the latter, then there could be 193 mg of unbound phospholipids in the product, 66 mg DHA- phospholipid and 33 mg EPA-phospholipid.

That's why I ask for the quantity of DHA and EPA in the product.

Thank you.

Terry Naturals did not reply.

There seems to be a consistent ploy here. There is a demand for phospholipid-bound DHA and EPA, and sellers know it. Nordic Natural, Bulletproof, Euromega, and Vectomega market products that ambiguously purport to contain high levels of phospholipid-bound DHA and EPA. Their labels and marketing materials, however, contain no information about the actual quantities of phospholipid-bound DHA and EPA, and inquiries to Euromega and Vectomega about the actual quantities go unanswered.

I’m glad to be shown wrong about any of this.

I’ll present details later, but in my search I learned that the SMASH fish are best (and Wild Planet cans are cheap by the dozen), omega-3 eggs are cheap and have more phospho-omegas than roe (I thought they were a gimmick, but they’re not), salmon roe is good (which I like and has a lot in an ounce - also lumpsucker or hake roe has high quantities), last krill oil. Yes, I am only reinventing the wheel: the usual recommendation for 4s is to get their omega-3s from fish, I should have listened.

[Plumster]

Bladedmind, thanks for your extensive research. We appreciate it!

[slacker]

Continuing the discussion on the actual amount of phospholipid-bound DHA and EPA in products purporting to contain them.

I’ll present details later, but in my search I learned that the SMASH fish are best (and Wild Planet cans are cheap by the dozen), omega-3 eggs are cheap and have more phospho-omegas than roe (I thought they were a gimmick, but they’re not), salmon roe is good (which I like and has a lot in an ounce - also lumpsucker or hake roe has high quantities), last krill oil. Yes, I am only reinventing the wheel: the usual recommendation for 4s is to get their omega-3s from fish, I should have listened.

Thanks bladed;
I'm interested in your details on omega 3 eggs, especially since I also thought that they were a gimmick! Fellow cynic...

[bladedmind]

I made an original post on the cost per gram of DHA-phospholipid here. Subject to correction.
https://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5712

Summary: Cost of DHA-PL
$24 per gram - salmon roe
$12 per gram - krill oil
$6-13? per gram - canned anchovy
ditto - kippered herring
$4 per gram - Atlantic salmon
$1.77 per gram - omega 3 eggs

Slacker, I'm no expert, just teaching myself about these things via online search. Chicken eggs already have some DHA. Flaxseed has ALA lipid, which is added to the chicken feed - the chickens convert some of into DHA, increasing the amount in the egg. Some growers add algal oil or fishmeal to boost further. Brands differ in amount of Omega-3s, so it's good to check the specifics. Gundry recommends omega-3 eggs.

Also see: http://www.dhaomega3.org/Other-Omega-3- ... -Stockholm

My grandfather long ago kept 15,000 chickens, selling eggs and meat to the Seattle market. I met him when I was 3 but don't remember it - he wouldn't have remembered it either, because of Alzheimer's.

[bladedmind]

I meant to say that the flaxseed (which contains ALA) is fed to the chickens.

[circular]

Still in a quandry over buying omega 3 eggs vs pastured eggs. I've been using the latter for a long time, and they're supposed to be higher in omega 3 by virtue of the hens' diet, but I still wonder if I'd be getting much more of our desired form of omega 3 from the omega three eggs, while giving up the other benefits of pastured eggs. Hmmm, maybe I should just rotate.

[bladedmind]

Rotating the eggs does seem appropriate for someone named circular.

Here is what I could find. According to the first linked site, pastured eggs have three times the omega-3s than conventional, omega-3s have five times the omega-3s than conventional. If you are not short of vitamins A and E, omega-3 eggs might give you more omega-3s at less cost than pastured. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/pa ... s#section2

See also this more rigorous journal article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 4609003513

Significantly higher levels of ALA (C18:3, P < 0.05) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA, C22:6, P < 0.05), in omega-3 eggs contributed to a higher omega-3 fats content and n-3:n-6 ratio than in organic and conventional eggs.

Omega-3 eggs appear to show the greatest difference in a range of fatty acids. In particular, omega-3 eggs have significantly lower levels of myristic and palmitic acids, resulting in a lower percentage of saturated fats, and a significantly higher percentage of ALA, DHA, and total omega-3 fatty acids. Correspondingly, the ω´-3:ω´-6 ratio was significantly higher in omega-3 eggs than in organic and conventional eggs.

Data from the second link: specifically, proportion of DHA in conventional or organic eggs is significantly different from the proportion in omega-3 eggs; omega-3 egg about 2. 5 times as much DHA:
Conventional 0.85 ± 0.16; Organic 0.84 ± 0.17; Omega-3 2.05 ± 0.28

[circular]

In my post two entries above, I point out that the Nordic Naturals Phospholipid label and advertising material do not state the actual amount of phospholipid-bound DHA and EPA. in the product. Poster Circular in their post one entry above said they would email NN with the question.

Sorry I never got back on this. Been having a crazy last 15 months.

I had sent Nordic Naturals a link to this thread and asked for comment. They replied:

We are sorry as we do not comment on third-party blogs, comments, or other online opinions.

There will always be studies surrounding any nutrient that provides information we as consumers choose to accept or not accept. Rather than try to convince consumers about a study that is contrary to our belief's, we are confident in the years of scientific research that has proven the benefits of omega-3s.

To that end here are some links not affiliated with Nordic Naturals if you'd like to do some further reading!
http://bit.ly/ajohomega-3s
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc
https://omega-research.com/

In retrospect my question to them was too vague, so I've written back asking for the amount of phospholipid-bound DHA and EPA in Omega-3 Phospholipids.