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Pathogenic tau/ cognitive impairment precipitated by high-salt diet

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:49 pm
by chrissyr
Apologies if this was already posted or known.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-re ... -salt-diet

This is news to me-- I was under the impression that the problem with high salt was mainly high blood pressure. Since mine is always on the low side, I have been pretty free with salt!

Re: Pathogenic tau/ cognitive impairment precipitated by high-salt diet

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:01 pm
by BrianR
Note that "Although Dr. Iadecola points out that the salt content consumed by the mice in this study is eight to 16 times higher than normal and is likely to be more than a person would consume in a single day, "

My understanding is that studies indicate higher potassium intake than sodium intake significantly improves salt tolerance and that worldwide all cause mortality numbers tend to be lowest in the 3000-5000mg per day of sodium consumption. (I presume that climate, diet and individual variation can make large differences.)

Personally, I'm comfortable averaging about 3000 mg of sodium along with 5000 mg of potassium intake per day with no apparent effect on my blood pressure. But I agree that consuming 25,000 - 100,000 mg of sodium per day would probably be bad for me in ways that go beyond my blood pressure.

Re: Pathogenic tau/ cognitive impairment precipitated by high-salt diet

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:21 pm
by NewRon
Do you supplement to reach 5000mg potassium per day, Brian?

Re: Pathogenic tau/ cognitive impairment precipitated by high-salt diet

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:03 am
by donbob
NewRon wrote:Do you supplement to reach 5000mg potassium per day, Brian?

Morton’s Lite Salt gives me potassium in the correct proportion to sodium. About $2 for 64 grams of sodium and 78 grams of potassium.

Re: Pathogenic tau/ cognitive impairment precipitated by high-salt diet

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:12 am
by BrianR
NewRon wrote:Do you supplement to reach 5000mg potassium per day, Brian?

Like @donbob, I use Morton's Lite Salt in place of standard table salt. It's not as "salty" as 100% sodium chloride, so I probably use more, but hopefully is overall positive. Looking back over the last 6 months, here's what Cronometer says are my top sources of potassium.
Screen Shot 2019-10-24 at 9.05.31 AM.png

I wonder about some of the numbers (16oz of brewed coffee ~ 230mg?), but figure it's directionally correct.

Re: Pathogenic tau/ cognitive impairment precipitated by high-salt diet

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:00 pm
by cdamaden
Chris Masterjohn sent a series of emails on vitamins and minerals. His advice was to get natural sources of potassium in your diet and then salt (NaCl) to taste since your body has a natural ability to signal for salt based on its potassium level. He suggested that people consume 4,700-11,000 mg/d of potassium - supplement if needed. Based on tables of common foods, it seems hard to get there without supplementing (unless you're a bean lover!).

Re: Pathogenic tau/ cognitive impairment precipitated by high-salt diet

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:57 am
by Fiver
Interesting. That much salt would impact the water balance of solutions and cells, including those in the brain. It's just a guess, but that could be one of many causes. And it would not matter much, in that cause, what type of salt it was.

Re: Pathogenic tau/ cognitive impairment precipitated by high-salt diet

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:27 pm
by NewRon
Fiver wrote:Interesting. That much salt would impact the water balance of solutions and cells, including those in the brain. It's just a guess, but that could be one of many causes. And it would not matter much, in that cause, what type of salt it was.


Fiver,

Sorry, I don't understand what youre saying, can you clarify a bit please?

Thanks!

Re: Pathogenic tau/ cognitive impairment precipitated by high-salt diet

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:11 am
by Fiver
Sure. Our cells, tissues, and fluids contain water, and substances dissolved in that water. The water and substances try to reach an equilibrium - equal concentrations - across any cell membrane. Most substances are too large to pass the cell membranes without help. But water easily moves back and forth to find the equilibrium point ("osmosis"). So if we drink salt water, for example, physics tends to find an equilibrium point by pulling water out of cells - which is why we dehydrate if we try to drink seawater. Alternatively, drinking fresh water tends to cause water to flow into cells - it's hydrating. So *IF* high salt consumption where to change the salt:water balance of our blood, tissues, of cells it could cause water to flow out of cells, which usually causes cell to shrink and physiology to be impacted. This is one way salts impact blood pressure. Our kidney's will fight against this, of course, trying to maintain a correct salt balance. But *IF* really high levels of salt (our any other dissolved substance) occur for a short time, or in a particular place it could have impacts.....on things like the integrity of the blood brain barrier, the behavior of brain cells, etc. I think if experiments use high enough salt concentrations, this *could* occur and might explain some of the response. Just what ocured to me as I read this....

Re: Pathogenic tau/ cognitive impairment precipitated by high-salt diet

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:30 pm
by chrissyr
It looks like the nitric oxide is what to watch.

In their new Nature study, the investigators found that decreased nitric oxide production in blood vessels affects the stability of tau proteins in neurons. Tau provides structure for the scaffolding of neurons. This scaffolding, also called the cytoskeleton, helps to transport materials and nutrients across neurons to support their function and health.

"Tau becoming unstable and coming off the cytoskeleton causes trouble," Dr. Iadecola said, adding that tau is not supposed to be free in the cell. Once tau detaches from the cytoskeleton, the protein can accumulate in the brain, causing cognitive problems. The researchers determined that healthy levels of nitric oxide keep tau in check. "It puts the brakes on activity caused by a series of enzymes that leads to tau disease pathology," he said.


This is specifically talking about tau; I don't know if potassium would be a factor or not?

Increasing nitric oxide:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/ho ... tric-oxide