study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

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sarahb12
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study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby sarahb12 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:45 am

I saw this pop up in feed and thought it interesting:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-12- ... IquEsOZbW4

I googled a bit and found something else interesting (maybe why they did the study above?) that sort of supports why the vaccine could work. tb is a related actinobacteria. "P. acnes shares similarities with the genome of Mycobacterium tuberculosis (M. tuberculosis)."
https://www.j-alz.com/editors-blog/post ... imers-germ
In June of 2017, a University of Bristol study in the UK found a 5 to 10-fold increase in Actinobacteria (order
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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby Family Tree Guy » Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:45 pm

Thanks for posting this. I also saw the news item-- quite a strong effect (a ~4x reduction in AD risk). On the whole, I interpret this to be additional evidence supporting the germ / pathogen theory of AD. What really amazes me though is that BCG is administered into the bladder. If you were to ask me to design a vaccine type strategy for AD, in a million years I would not have said squirt it up into your bladder to protect your brain. The immune system is amazing. I have not previously read any literature tying Tb to AD, but have to suspect that the immune system here gets stimulated to better fight similar bacteria.

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby J11 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:21 pm

Family Tree Guy, an earlier paper looked at global coverage of BCG vaccination and found that those exposed to BCG had lower AD rates. So, protection is not only offered by direct infusion into the bladder but by regular prophylactic administration as well.

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby sarahb12 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:34 pm

Also, some medicines used to treat TB, methylene blue and artemisinin, seem to show action against AD. Oddly, these are also used for malaria - maybe because they are both at least somewhat antibiotic?
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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby Plumster » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:22 am

So, does that mean we should get a BCG vaccine, if possible? I read that the vaccine is not recommended for general use in the U.S.
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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby Julie G » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:13 am

Thanks for posting this, sarahB12. I'm FASCINATED and think this mechanistically tells us something very important. Clearly activating the immune system is key, but why TB bacteria through the bladder?
Also, some medicines used to treat TB, methylene blue and artemisinin, seem to show action against AD. Oddly, these are also used for malaria - maybe because they are both at least somewhat antibiotic?

Interesting hypothesis. I had a severe case of babesia duncani (very similar to malaria) for 15 years. I'll cross my fingers that my treatment has reduced my chance of developing AD. :D
So, does that mean we should get a BCG vaccine, if possible? I read that the vaccine is not recommended for general use in the U.S.

From what I'm reading, as Family Tree Guy alludes, multiple vaccinations were injected into the bladder. We don't know that standard TB vaccines will also reduce risk. I spent a few hours in a rabbit hole trying to determine if countries (where the vaccine is still required) have lower rates of AD. From my rudimentary probing around, it appears that may be the case, but we need researchers to dive into this angle so that we can better understand. Countries that still require a TB vaccine are also much less modernized which may be a risk factor in and of itself...

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby Family Tree Guy » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:14 pm

I have a theory here, though I admit it is connecting a few things that may be coincidence. Tb vaccination is known to stimulate a part of the immune system known as TLR2 (Toll Like Receptor 2) which plays a key role in fighting the mycobacterium Tb. I have read some papers where TLR2 also plays a key role in the immune system's fight against a different bacteria, Pg (Porphyromonas gingivalis). Thus, if Pg play a key role in AD (the so called gingipain hypothesis), getting the Tb vaccine could be specifically ramping up the immune system against the other bacteria. Of course it could be immune system stimulation through some completely different mechanism against a different target.

In terms of whether E4s at risk should consider Tb vaccination to reduce risk, my 2 cents is that the idea ain't crazy. Not sure if the protective effect would be similar without having to get it administered into the bladder though...
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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby stana » Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:33 pm

Hi,

"Bacillus Calmette-Guerin (BCG) vaccination has been reported to protect neonates from non-tuberculous pathogens, but no biological mechanism to explain such effects is known. We hypothesised that BCG produces broad-spectrum anti-microbial protection via a hepcidin-mediated hypoferraemia, limiting iron availability for pathogens."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4503799/

Study failed to find evidence, but stil....

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby Nikki2019 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:50 pm

This TB vaccine notion causes me to think about my ApoE 4/4 father's utterly complete rapid obvious cognitive decline once he had pneumonia. I wonder if vaccinations for pneumonia would be wise for a precaution for 4s. No one really knew he had AD until after the pneumonia. It is difficult to determine chicken/egg in regards to the AD causing a weaker blood brain barrier and therefore allowing a pathogen or virus to enter the brain easily or would a vaccination help? In that case maybe it's a good idea for 4s to get flu shots?
As E4 s, we are inherent fighters and don't give up so easily.

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby stana » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:35 pm

Wonder if this is somehow related to kidney receptor megalin, glycoprotein that belongs to the low-density lipoprotein receptor family. Perhaps vaccine impact certain reabsorptions.


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