study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby NancyM » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:02 am

Nikki2019 wrote:This TB vaccine notion causes me to think about my ApoE 4/4 father's utterly complete rapid obvious cognitive decline once he had pneumonia. I wonder if vaccinations for pneumonia would be wise for a precaution for 4s. No one really knew he had AD until after the pneumonia. It is difficult to determine chicken/egg in regards to the AD causing a weaker blood brain barrier and therefore allowing a pathogen or virus to enter the brain easily or would a vaccination help? In that case maybe it's a good idea for 4s to get flu shots?


I also noticed a significant decline in my father with the onset of shingles. This was also before his AD diagnosis. Although I have shunned vaccines in recent years due to my worry about toxins, my dad's experience was enough to convince me to get the shingles vaccine.

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby BrianR » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:39 pm

Nikki2019 wrote:... I wonder if vaccinations for pneumonia would be wise for a precaution for 4s. ...

FWIW, https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/risk-factors-and-prevention/infections-and-dementia asserts
Which infections are thought to be linked to Alzheimer's disease?
Some of the infections that are thought to be linked to Alzheimer's include oral herpes, pneumonia and infection with spirochete bacteria (the type which cause Lyme disease and some types of gum disease).
...
Pneumonia
Chlamydophila pneumoniae is the bacteria that causes pneumonia and bronchitis. It usually infects the respiratory tract. However, it can also evade the immune system and remain as a chronic infection inside cells, including white blood cells. This is especially common in people over 60. The bacteria has been found inside the brain cells of people with Alzheimer's disease. Its presence in the brain could cause inflammation , which could contribute to the underlying Alzheimer's disease mechanism

The article cites this [paywalled] 2015 paper: Bacterial infection and Alzheimer's disease: a meta-analysis. which provides this finding in the abstract "We found over a five-fold increased occurrence of AD with Cpn [Chlamydophila pneumoniae] infection (OR: 5.66; 95% CI: 1.83-17.51)."

Which suggests that bacterial pneumonia, particularly later in life, is a definite risk factor for AD. As to whether you should get vaccinated, I guess you'll need to look at relative risk scores to decide what makes sense for you. (Personally, I'm a big fan of vaccinations for life (or at least, disability) threatening diseases which I have a reasonable chance of succumbing to. Of course, others have strongly disagreeing views.)

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby karelena » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:38 pm

The reason that the BCG vaccine is administered via the bladder is because it is used as a treatment for bladder cancer. It is used as an immunomodulator, not for anti-TB or antimicrobial properties but because it can induce the immune system locally to respond to superficial bladder cancer cells. (My husband is a Urologist so I asked him to explain).

Interestingly there is a new study about populations in the world who routinely receive BCG vaccines and the severity of covid-19 infections. They are theorizing that covid-19 is less severe in people who have had BCG.

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby J11 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:29 pm

Right about now I am feeling super clever. I suppose once one has been around here for a while certain learning should be expected.

I will not give away le étonnement completely, though the article below is the first hint and
the second hint is: Give me an M, now Give me a P, etc.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6724148/

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby karelena » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:15 am

J11 wrote:Right about now I am feeling super clever. I suppose once one has been around here for a while certain learning should be expected.

I will not give away le étonnement completely, though the article below is the first hint and
the second hint is: Give me an M, now Give me a P, etc.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6724148/

Hi J11
I need more clues, can you elaborate?
Thanks

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby slacker » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:20 am

The article cites this [paywalled] 2015 paper: Bacterial infection and Alzheimer's disease: a meta-analysis. which provides this finding in the abstract "We found over a five-fold increased occurrence of AD with Cpn [Chlamydophila pneumoniae] infection (OR: 5.66; 95% CI: 1.83-17.51).


Many kinds of bacteria (among other things) can cause pneumonia. The current "pneumonia" vaccine available in the US protects against Streptococcus pneumoniae (pneumococcus) only. Other infectious causes of pneumonia can be prevented by other vaccines. I am not aware of a Chlamydophila or Chlamydia vaccine.
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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby J11 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:55 pm

Karelena, thank you for replying.
My suggestion might be of value, though obscure riddles can stand in the way of understanding.

Here are a few more hints:

... also give me an L; now there are not many letters left to give.

What I am thinking of is similar to the anti-diabetic substance found in apple pie.
Scientists took apple pies apart chemical by chemical to determine why it seemed
to have such a powerful effect on diabetes. They took away the apples; it wasn't the apples.
They took away the crust; it wasn't the crust. After they had taken away nearly everything there
was not a great deal remaining, though this turned out to be the active ingredient.


Riddles have often been frustrating for me as well. If no answer is posted in a few days,
then I will reveal the answer.

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby NF52 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:37 pm

karelena wrote:Hi J11
I need more clues, can you elaborate?
Thanks
J11 wrote:Karelena, thank you for replying.
My suggestion might be of value, though obscure riddles can stand in the way of understanding.

Here are a few more hints:
... also give me an L; now there are not many letters left to give.

What I am thinking of is similar to the anti-diabetic substance found in apple pie.
Scientists took apple pies apart chemical by chemical to determine why it seemed
to have such a powerful effect on diabetes. They took away the apples; it wasn't the apples.
They took away the crust; it wasn't the crust. After they had taken away nearly everything there
was not a great deal remaining, though this turned out to be the active ingredient.

Riddles have often been frustrating for me as well. If no answer is posted in a few days,
then I will reveal the answer.
I'm not good at riddles, but will guess liposomes on this one.
Liposomes have revolutionized cancer therapy by their broad clinical applications. Liposomes overcome the limitations of conventional chemotherapy by improving the bioavailability and stability of the drug molecules and minimizing side effects by site-specific targeted delivery of the drugs
Liposome and Their Applications in Cancer Therapy What's good for TB and cancer may help with crossing the blood-brain barrier!
4/4 and still an optimist!

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby karelena » Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:05 am

J11 wrote:Karelena, thank you for replying.
My suggestion might be of value, though obscure riddles can stand in the way of understanding.

Here are a few more hints:

... also give me an L; now there are not many letters left to give.

What I am thinking of is similar to the anti-diabetic substance found in apple pie.
Scientists took apple pies apart chemical by chemical to determine why it seemed
to have such a powerful effect on diabetes. They took away the apples; it wasn't the apples.
They took away the crust; it wasn't the crust. After they had taken away nearly everything there
was not a great deal remaining, though this turned out to be the active ingredient.


Riddles have often been frustrating for me as well. If no answer is posted in a few days,
then I will reveal the answer.


M, P and L are the hints. Membranes, permeability and lipids? As in, the vehicle of the vaccine (how the protein is encased/protected) and the adjuvents used to get the immune system to respond are more important than the BCG itself? Since the one vaccine seems to alter responses to a wide variety of pathogens, that may offer an explanation. Is that what you are thinking?

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Re: study: Tb vaccine lowers AD risk.

Postby J11 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:50 pm

Those are both very imaginative answers.
Sometimes it is not so much the right answer that is as interesting as other possible responses.

I was going to give the hint The City of Angels in my last post thought that would have given away the answer right away.


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