COVID-19 RNA Based Vaccines and the Risk of Prion Disease

[circular]

BTW, Dr. Malone got the virus early last year and developed long-haul Covid. A rumor going around at that time was that the vaccine would help with long-haul Covid, so he got the vaccine himself, even though he had natural infection. The vaccine didn't help with that, and he now has additional long-lasting effects to deal with.

As far as I understand it from my own reading, although I'm sorry I don't recall where I read this, the mRNA vaccine is not thought to help prevent long covid. Also, as you stated earlier, the mRNA vaccine is not as effective against getting sick with Delta as it was against getting sick with the original virus, although it's highly effective against serious illness from both. Meanwhile, the Delta variant is now taking a toll on younger, unvaccinated people who are getting intubed in higher numbers than they were from original Covid.

In my mind this supports the need for herd immunity with far fewer deaths through vaccination in order to prevent so many variants from forming that the vaccine may be less effective against. The mRNA vaccines are much more effective against the original Covid virus than the flu vaccine is against flu viruses. (It think it's something like 95% vs. 55% respectively.) Because the flu vaccine is so much less effective (though still helpful) every year they have to recreate it to address new variants, and even then its effectiveness is hit or miss, and sometimes just boils down to reducing symptoms. If everyone had been fully vaccinated against the original Covid with the mRNA vaccines, then there would be scarce (if any?) variants to deal with due to its much higher 95% effectiveness at producing herd immunity at the outset.

Again, sorry I don't have cites. The news gets the least of my attention these days.

[Dod]

Thank you “theBrain” I will have a listen to the new podcast with Robert Malone, sounds interesting.

It is fascinating to read this thread and see signs of polarization which is totally counterproductive when looking for truth and facts. Frustration breaking out into ad hominin attacks and strawman arguments which has been a feature of what limited discussion, actually preferring to shut down discussion, there has been in the last 18 months. It is natural that people are wary of overturning a rock and finding something they didn’t want to see.

We might as well get used to it as things could get ugly as we go into respiratory virus season in the autumn if we don’t resist deteriorating into an “us versus them” destructive discussion.

As I see it, and I welcome any comments, this all boils down to “everyone who can take it must take the shot to protect those who for an “acceptable” reason cannot take it”.

Meaning:

1. Acceptance that there are undesirable side effects that we must protect certain people from

2. Reliance on assumptions of the effectiveness of the jab to reduce spread

3. Ignoring the steps and early treatment known to drastically reduce the severity of the disease, some known about since March 2020 and some developed and refined by senior frontline doctors with impeccable records who actually wanted to do something in the early stages of infection rather than sit on their hands as official policy decreed (see FLCCC as an example)

4. Brushing over as if insignificant the moral and philosophical side of pressuring people to take a pharmaceutical to theoretically help a small set in their "community" they do not know. Maybe pressuring people who have not so much as taken paracetamol/Tylenol for years, and have made the effort to develop their health and immune systems naturally, into taking a new under-tested still experimental emergency-use-authorized medicine.

5. Short-sightedness in that once the electronic “health-passport” or “freedom-pass” or whatever other inverted Orwellian name is settled on, it will stop at this jab. It will inevitably cover the 6-monthly boosters, new recipes for new scariants, flu jabs, and to cover other diseases that are already being talked about. A perfect platform for the social credit system already in place in certain totalitarian countries. I wish I had bought the shares in 2019. This is happening on our watch. Will we go down in history as the pathetic generation that let this happen?

6. Forgetting that most of us seem set to die from heart disease, cancer, AD, diabetes related disease etc. Why are so many people happy to help fundamentally change the way we live for a mouse whilst ignoring the elephant. It was blown out of all proportion from the start with seemingly no acknowledgement of the downsides of any of the measures in the cost-benefit analysis. Downsides that include huge numbers of deaths even by official acknowledgment

7. Acceptance of deceit and censorship? I cannot work out whether people are not aware of it, or know but don’t mind because it is for their team FOR NOW. Let’s learn from 20th century history? On PCR tests/masks/asymptomatic spread/”cases”/lockdown effectiveness/existing effective treatment/scientists and doctors being blocked from general discussion.
The UK’s SAGE committee’s reluctantly released minutes proving that they viewed the mass media as a tool at their disposal for manipulating the fear level. Although this is irrefutable, to say it provokes the straw-man argument “yes but you probably think Elvis lives on the dark side of the moon”. Actually seeing what the last 18 months has done to otherwise intelligent people, anything is possible…

[Tincup]

As an aside, I suggested to a friend who'd had long COVID for 5 months to try 50 mg melatonin powder/day. He said it worked like a charm for both he and his wife. Said it was like they'd never had it.

Tincup, can you share the mechanism(s) that are believed to be involved with melatonin helping to quell long covid symptoms, and what dose would be reasonable for this? My husband's friend hasn't been able to shake off long covid yet. For myself I worry about getting long covid more than anything, given my health history with chronic fatigue and inflammatory issues.

As I recall, it was a Cleveland Clinic story in November 2020 that prompted me to suggest it. Here is a search.

Also this.

I'd taken melatonin at up to 1/2 gram doses at the time I suggested, so beyond the digestive distress some experience, thought the risk reward was worth doing for them. They were certainly very pleased with the results and thanked me profusely for a non-linear suggestion.

[JD2020]

Frustration breaking out into ad hominin attacks and strawman arguments which has been a feature of what limited discussion, actually preferring to shut down discussion, there has been in the last 18 months.

I couldn't decide which sentence in your excellent post to quote. The above will do. The shutting down of discussion is probably the issue I am most worried about. Threats to free speech. I also wonder about the people/forces making that decision. Don't they realize that when they shut down discussion/opinions/speech, it makes what's left look like propaganda? This path is no way to convince those who are unsure. Thank you for your excellent post.

[circular]

6. Forgetting that most of us seem set to die from heart disease, cancer, AD, diabetes related disease etc. Why are so many people happy to help fundamentally change the way we live for a mouse whilst ignoring the elephant.

This is an excellent point. While I don't at all suspect that Covid-19 is a "mouse" compared with the toll that HD, cancer, AD, diabetes, autoimmune disease and the like take on the world (I'd like to see some reliable comparitive numbers to show that), I do find it discouraging, now that you mention it, that the "establishment" doesn't mobilize around these chronic health issues and their many causes as much as it has around Covid-19. If they did it would similarly fundamentally change the way we live.

[Julie G]

6. Forgetting that most of us seem set to die from heart disease, cancer, AD, diabetes related disease etc. Why are so many people happy to help fundamentally change the way we live for a mouse whilst ignoring the elephant.

COVID might feel like a "mouse" if it hasn't personally affected you, but CDC statistics suggest otherwise. The virus is now the 3rd leading case of death in the US and has contributed to a decline in life expectancy not seen since WWII.

[TheBrain]

I'm listening to an interview of Dr. Robert Malone, the inventor of mRNA, on the Bannon's War Room podcast (episode# 1,120)
3. Nurses and other healthcare providers in Florida, for example, are reporting that the majority of people they're encountering in their hospitals with severe disease are vaccinated.

This certainly is different that what is reported elsewhere. For example,

"The people who end up in the hospital with severe COVID-19 are almost all unvaccinated. At AdventHealth, about 95% of their inpatients with COVID-19 are unvaccinated as of Thursday. At Orlando Health, it was about 90% as of Wednesday.

“This has really become a tale of two cities. We’ve got the vaccinated and the unvaccinated,” Finkler {Dr. Neil Finkler, chief clinical officer for AdventHealth’s Central Florida division. } said. “The take-home message is: get the vaccine." Source: Orlando Sentinel

I saw an interview with a nurse in Atlanta. She said vaccinated who get sick enough to go to hospital might need some O2, while the unvaxed are going on respirators. Though I have 2 Pfizer shots and a J&J (another story), I think the best defense is to have stellar metabolism and no comorbidities. My wife and I were in a 13 month study. We did daily questionnaires and got tested periodically, both PCR and antibodies. On our ending antibody tests around 1 May, she had strong antibodies from the virus. Completely asymptomatic. We were testing temp 1 or 2x/day and all night HRV & heart rate among other metrics. I've been with her continuously and had no antibodies, so never caught what she had. We don't know when she got it as our previous antibody tests in late Dec were both negative. We also had negative nasal swab tests for travel reasons in March. I started my Pfizer series at the end of Feb and she started her Moderna series in mid-March.

As an aside, I suggested to a friend who'd had long COVID for 5 months to try 50 mg melatonin powder/day. He said it worked like a charm for both he and his wife. Said it was like they'd never had it.

When claims are directly opposite of one another, it's hard to know what the truth is. A lot of digging by honest investigative reporters would probably help.

I agree with you that the best defense is to have stellar metabolism and no comorbidities. I'd add having a strong, yet balanced, immune system. And those of us on this forum are here to optimize our health to avoid those darn ApoE4-related diseases. So we've already achieved optimal health or we're working hard to get there.

When I first started reading about your experience in a 13-month study, I thought you and your wife were in a clinical trial for a vaccine, but I see that's not so. What was the overall purpose of the study and what did it show? It's great that your wife developed antibodies to Covid while having no symptoms and that you never even caught it from her. This demonstrates how healthy you both are.

Thanks for the aside about using 50 mg melatonin for long Covid and your f/u to circular's questions. I'll be sure to store that in my Covid-related folder.

[MarcR]

This topic has prompted the moderation team to refine its practices. You can read about it here.

[TheBrain]

And if the admins ban me for this and keep "TheBrain" active then this is the end of the site, pretty much. Or the solidifying of it as quack central.

Edit, since ApropoE4 did not respond to my request below, I deleted the offending posts.

Please read our Community Guidelines and edit and conform your posts to them. Especially:

Respect. All posts and private messages should be courteous. Disagree with ideas, not people. You may not attack, insult, undermine, or belittle anyone. This broad prohibition extends beyond other members and this community to the world at large.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. TheBrain reported what she heard. You have every right to disagree, but not to label.

Tincup, thank you for deleting posts that didn't adhere to our community guidelines. Frankly, I'm glad I didn't see them.

Thanks, too, to NF52, MarcR, and TheresaB for their efforts to encourage contributors to adhere to our guidelines.

[TheBrain]

I'd like to share this medical paper with you. It's published in the American Journal of Medicine. Peter McCullough, MD, MPH, is the primary author.

Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection

Here's the abstract.

Approximately 9 months of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavius-2 (SARS-CoV-2 [COVID-19]) spreading across the globe has led to widespread COVID-19 acute hospitalizations and death. The rapidity and highly communicable nature of the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak has hampered the design and execution of definitive randomized, controlled trials of therapy outside of the clinic or hospital. In the absence of clinical trial results, physicians must use what has been learned about the pathophysiology of SARS-CoV-2 infection in determining early outpatient treatment of the illness with the aim of preventing hospitalization or death. This article outlines key pathophysiological principles that relate to the patient with early infection treated at home. Therapeutic approaches based on these principles include 1) reduction of reinoculation, 2) combination antiviral therapy, 3) immunomodulation, 4) antiplatelet/antithrombotic therapy, and 5) administration of oxygen, monitoring, and telemedicine. Future randomized trials testing the principles and agents discussed will undoubtedly refine and clarify their individual roles; however, we emphasize the immediate need for management guidance in the setting of widespread hospital resource consumption, morbidity, and mortality.

I'm fully prepared to use early treatment, in case I become ill with COVID-19 (although I suspect I already had it).