SusanJ's intro

[Jafa]

Oops just realized I’ve posted this on wrong thread. Maybe a kind Moderator can move it to ‘Questions on homocysteine supplements” thread.

[circular]

Oops just realized I’ve posted this on wrong thread. Maybe a kind Moderator can move it to ‘Questions on homocysteine supplements” thread.

Or this creatine thread?

I appreciate this heads up. I don't have that response to it but since I've recommended it (not a professional) to others before I should be aware.

[circular]

Susan, thank you for your updates. What great information.

What Lynch was likely saying is that upwards of 70% of your methyl groups (i.e. SAMe) go to creating creatine and PC. So, if you supplement creatine and PC, the methyl groups/SAMe are free to be used elsewhere.

This makes me wonder about just taking SAMe to provide more methyl groups? I've been considering going back on SAMe, which is great for my chronic pain. Plus, caregiving Hell has brought on some come-and-go depression which SAMe can also help. I might even cut back the curcumin to assess what side effects 800 mg/day may be causing the whole time (years) it's helped my pain.

I searched the Wiki homocysteine page and didn't find any mention of SAMe. I would be concerned that taking SAMe and creatine and PC would put me very uncomfortably in the dark as to what I'm doing with my methylation cycle, so maybe one approach or the other is wise. Right now my HCY is quite good using B12, folate and B6 without anything else, so I'm a bit wary of adding more inputs, although I think I have the PEMT variants you have.

I go on and off creatine. I feel it's good for me, but I really hate the bloating it causes, and the micronized version gives me reflux, so I have a sort of love-hate relationship with it. Maybe if I go back on SAMe that would reduce the need for supplemental creatine.

According to ConsumerLab the fear of SAMe raising homocysteine isn't that well supported at the usual doses, although individuals could monitor their own response.

[SusanJ]

Never taken SAMe. I keep reading mixed opinions about using it, versus just working out the kinks in methylation so you do a better job of making your own.

And you're right, the end result of PC, creatine and SAMe might be just too much SAMe.

[circular]

Interestingly, Examine.com (who is currently working on their SAMe page), says:

Choline is another prominent methyl donor in the body, but due to selectivity of some reactions the two [choline and SAMe] are not necessarily interchangeable.

So maybe if I don't take too much of any one of them, taking some each of choline, SAMe and creatine may not be so bad. I often come to thinking that smaller amounts of more helpful things is better than larger amounts of fewer things, providing broad overall support rather than pushing a few pathways too hard.

[SusanJ]

Well if you do the smaller amounts, let us know how it goes. I've certainly been able to cut back methylfolate by adding creatine and PC.

[Jafa]

Happy dance! Homocysteine 6.6. Did it with 400gms methylfolate, 500gms B12, 25mg P5P, 1000mg TMG together with creatine, sunflower lecithin and glycine. Thankyou SusanJ, C.Masterjohn and Ben Lynch.

[Stavia]

Happy dance! Homocysteine 6.6. Did it with 400gms methylfolate, 500gms B12, 25mg P5P, 1000mg TMG together with creatine, sunflower lecithin and glycine. Thankyou SusanJ, C.Masterjohn and Ben Lynch.

Oh well done!!
( did they send it on ice?)

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[Jafa]

Hi Stavia, Dr Jafa here. Och aye, the blood was taken in the Edinburgh of the South on our recent road trip, EDTA tube on ice yielded the 6.6. Jafa on the same regimen got a 10.3 from our local lab only two weeks prior. Jafa had seen Ben Lynch’s advisory on processing homocysteine, prompting me to ask at the local lab re specimen processing, and despite subsequent “reassurances” it would seem that they use an SST tube, which waits around the lab at room temperature for an indeterminate time while the red blood cells dump homocysteine into the serum. Our local lab company has a monopoly unfortunately, unlike the US where I guess dissatisfied clients can vote with their feet and wallets. I am unfortunately convinced that Jafa’s homocysteine results are determined more by the variations in lab processing rather than any changes in her regimen as this is now the second instance where different labs have yielded widely different results. Last year she had an 8.7 from the local lab and a 6.0 from the same venepuncture specimen processed accidentally by the hospital lab. That lab of course has a policy which precludes community requests for homocysteine testing. For those on the forum I guess the message is “caveat emptor”, and those analysts or statisticians out there will recognize the “rubbish in, rubbish out” phenomenon where the quality of one’s conclusions are determined by the integrity of the data.

[Stavia]

Hi Stavia, Dr Jafa here. Och aye, the blood was taken in the Edinburgh of the South on our recent road trip, EDTA tube on ice yielded the 6.6. Jafa on the same regimen got a 10.3 from our local lab only two weeks prior. Jafa had seen Ben Lynch’s advisory on processing homocysteine, prompting me to ask at the local lab re specimen processing, and despite subsequent “reassurances” it would seem that they use an SST tube, which waits around the lab at room temperature for an indeterminate time while the red blood cells dump homocysteine into the serum. Our local lab company has a monopoly unfortunately, unlike the US where I guess dissatisfied clients can vote with their feet and wallets. I am unfortunately convinced that Jafa’s homocysteine results are determined more by the variations in lab processing rather than any changes in her regimen as this is now the second instance where different labs have yielded widely different results. Last year she had an 8.7 from the local lab and a 6.0 from the same venepuncture specimen processed accidentally by the hospital lab. That lab of course has a policy which precludes community requests for homocysteine testing. For those on the forum I guess the message is “caveat emptor”, and those analysts or statisticians out there will recognize the “rubbish in, rubbish out” phenomenon where the quality of one’s conclusions are determined by the integrity of the data.

Well deduced Dr Jafa! Pity about the unnecessary worry

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