MarkES NMR Results

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MarkES
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MarkES NMR Results

Post by MarkES »

Here are my first NMR results along with past lipids for comparison.

Bio:
ApoE 3/4, male, 45 years, 5'11, 147 lbs, BMI 20.5

Goal:
I wanted to experiment with a very low fat, zero dietary cholesterol vegan diet to see how low my LDL would go, how high would my trigs go, and measure the corresponding LDL-P. I figured this would probably be the lowest possible LDL I could ever realize. Previously, the lowest I've seen my LDL is 142 on a 20% fat diet. I've never attempted a vegan diet before and so I didn't want to restrict calories. I wanted to be well nourished and not have any deficiencies. I wanted to maintain weight and fully support thyroid and metabolic rate.

Diet:
100% vegan last 3 weeks, 99.5% vegan last 6 months. 2200 daily calories. 8% fat, 82% carbs, 10% protein. 2.8g SFA (1%), 9.1g PUFA (3.7%), 3.8g MUFA (1.5%). 2.2:1 omega6:3. 80g fiber. Daily food is pretty similar each day, sometimes changing types of veggies, fruits, legumes for slight variety. Oats, potatoes, sweet potatoes, quinoa, white rice, lentils, black beans, kidney beans, chickpeas, dates, bananas, apples, dried figs, kiwi, mixed veggies, kale, collards. I intentionally ate calorie dense fruit for calories. 3 servings/day legumes for protein amino acids. 2 servings/day leafy greens for calcium. Fat source was ground flaxseeds or chia seeds for each meal. No wheat/bread/gluten. Almost no alcohol (~3oz/month). I normally tend to prefer savory, salty type foods and this diet is a bit sweet at times for my typical tastes. Quite a bit more fruit than I've eaten in the past. With so little fat, it is large volumes of food. Others will think I'm eating a lot and it might be 500 or so calories.
MarkES Vegan Diet Cronometer 20140128.pdf
Supplements:
I have been keeping supplements to a minimum. In the past, I have had adverse effects following some supplemental advice.
B12 2000 mcg
DHA 120 mg
iodine 225 mcg
Calcium/Magnesium (450/250 mg only on sauna days)

Exercise:
Not much lately. A few daily body squats or push-ups before breakfast. 15 minute walks a couple times per week. Kettle bell swings a couple times per month. Light bouncing on a rebounder a couple times per month. During the morning when I might typically exercise, I've been taking 30 minute saunas 120-130 F - maybe this helps some form of detox and is meditative. I walk more in the summer. I tend to like the idea of exercise being reasonable and sustainable and not excessive.

NMR Results:

Code: Select all

LDL-P      1559
TC          158
LDL-C       107
HDL-C        33
TG           88

                  (desired)
HDL-P        20.1 (>=30.5)
Small LDL-P 672   (<=527)
LDL size     21.0 (>20.5) large pattern A
LP-IR        41   (<=45)
Note that my NMR results did not include other particle counts and sizes reported in other folks NMR results (Large VLDL-P, Large HDL-P, VLDL size, HDL size). I confirmed with MDLabs that all intended measurements are included in the results. Maybe this is why the cost is less?
I ordered the following test ($75 total cost):
http://www.mdlabtests.com/md087428-nmr-lipoprofile.html
MarkES NMR LipoProfile Test Results 20140128.pdf
History:

Code: Select all

Lipids    TC LDL HDL TG T/H FBG NOTES
01/28/14 158 107  33 88 4.8  88 LDL-P 1559; 99.5% vegan, little exercise; 82% C, 10% P, 8% F
05/24/13 214 150  51 65 4.2     liver, less meat, no eggs, no exercise; 67% C, 13% P, 20% F
12/05/12 307 224  73 49 4.2  75 removed coconut oil, butter, ~40% C
08/30/12 398 301  81 79 4.9     PHD removed multi/selenium supp, tallow for cream
04/27/12 407 315  76 79 5.4  84 PHD 1-year; 30% C, 20% P, 50% F; 57g sat fat, 1000mg cholesterol
02/23/11 226 142  78 32 2.9  71 CW 50% C, 30% P, 20% F; oats, brown rice, lean meat
02/27/07 226 149  65 61 3.5     CW healthy diet

Thyroid   TSH  fT3  fT4 rT3
12/05/12 1.57 3.25 1.04  17
04/27/12 1.76 2.53
PHD = Perfect Health Diet (Jaminet)
CW = Conventional Wisdom
FBG = fasting blood glucose


My thoughts on results:
A low fat vegan diet doesn't necessarily mean low LDL-P. Since it's my only NMR so far, it's unknown if it might be my personal lowest LDL-P. Certainly my LDL-C>200 would not have lower LDL-P, but I would be curious to know what it was when LDL-C 142, TG 32 while eating CW low fat diet.

I was surprised my LDL wasn't lower, expecting closer to 70 with essentially no dietary cholesterol or saturated fats. When I compare my numbers with giftsplash 12/10/13 (LDL-P 1281 TC 163 LDL-C 91 HDL 43 TG 143), my LDL-P is 270 higher with 16 higher LDL-C, 55 lower TG, 10 lower HDL. I'm not sure how to interpret that, I would have thought the lower TG would have cancelled the LDL-C, HDL differences. Or, Philly LDL-P 1099 LDL-C 82 HDL 46 TG 89. My LDL-P is 460 higher with same TG, 25 higher LDL-C, 13 lower HDL - interesting the relatively large difference in LDL-P. My LDL-C still continues to be relatively higher than others on similar diets. It makes me think there's something else going on beyond diet, possibly with my digestion, causing my body to generate LDL. Or maybe something related LDL receptors.

HDL 33 is the lowest I've had and too low wrt >40 recommendation. I think it's mostly related to dietary fat, but little exercise is probably a factor, too.

TG 88 is the highest I've had, although below clinically high trigs 150. Most likely due to carb dominant diet, lots of fruit.

My mental focus and vision does not seem as sharp.

I maintained the same weight. Carbs did not cause weight gain for me. I ate as many whole food carbs that I wanted to eat.

Body composition/musculature visually appears maintained which is supported by my Withings scale that measures body fat %. I don't rely on the scale for an accurate absolute body fat %, but it does give me a relative check for lean body mass changes. I haven't noticed a difference in strength.

I did not take any supplements/drugs to manipulate my lipids.

I wonder if 80g of fiber is too much. Or maybe not enough of the right type of fiber, like resistant starch.

I'd like to see a higher zinc:copper ratio than 3.6:1. It's difficult to reduce copper on a very high plant diet. I did get a cold this winter and maybe that's in part due to low zinc:copper. I don't get colds often.

Thyroid seems fine to me. Clinically, it has measured fine. A couple things I've noticed during this winter is that I've felt warmer and my skin hasn't been dry.

Sleep has been good. I typically sleep about 7 hours without waking up in the middle of the night. I tend to be a deep sleeper.

This diet gave me a noticeable light, fresh feeling. Little to no body odor relative to diets including meat, not that I had a body odor issue previously, just a difference I noticed.

My dental hygienist comments that my teeth cleanings have been very easy, very little tartar and nice pink gums. This has correlated to fewer meats and fats in my diet.


Next Steps:
Any suggestions are appreciated.

The main thing I'd like to pursue right now is my GI health. I had a stool test, results:
MarkES Metametrix Genova GI Effects Stool Profile 20130705.pdf
GI Effects Gastrointestinal Function Comprehensive Profile-METAMETRIX KIT, done the middle of last year before I started the vegan experiment, but at a time when I was eating less animal foods and fat. It shows I have high yeast and low bifido, low good bacteria. Chris Kresser treats yeast as a cause of high cholesterol. This is an expensive test, $466, so not something I want pay myself as occasional checks. Maybe there are cheaper options. I want to try and see a GI specialist to help treat and re-test through insurance. I may request to treat with an anti-fungal, Nystatin, that I hear is confined to the gut with minimal side effects. I don't seem to have obvious digestion symptoms, the only thing might be mildly firmer stool at times.

I will probably try to replace some fruit with fattier, omega6:3 friendly, foods like macadamia nuts and walnuts to bring up fat some and reduce carbs a little. Hopefully, this will help LDL-P, possibly reduce trigs and maybe help raise HDL. I would think it would raise LDL-C.

I may experiment with occasional oysters for zinc.

I may experiment with a little cod liver oil just to see if the fat soluble vitamins improve vision or metal focus. Don't want too much EPA though.
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Last edited by MarkES on Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Julie G
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Re: MarkES NMR Results

Post by Julie G »

Congrats, Mark- looks good. Quite an improvement over past lipids :D FWIW, my guess is that your plan to replace some carbs with dietary fat (moving forward) will further improve your numbers

Some wild speculation...Your dietary fat was so low that it made me wonder about hormonal issues, like possible low T. I know that can cause an elevation in lipids; could explain why your LDL-C & P aren't lower :?: Another thought...perhaps some resistant starch WOULD further optimize gut issues, further lower LP-IR, and subsequently improve lipids :idea:

Thanks for sharing. I'm learning lots from you and ALL who've shared.
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Re: MarkES NMR Results

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Juliegee wrote:Some wild speculation...Your dietary fat was so low that it made me wonder about hormonal issues, like possible low T. I know that can cause an elevation in lipids; could explain why your LDL-C & P aren't lower
Low T is a good suggestion. I haven't had it measured. I don't think I've been experiencing low T symptoms.
Juliegee wrote:perhaps some resistant starch WOULD further optimize gut issues, further lower LP-IR, and subsequently improve lipids
This is definately on my list of options to try. I understand there are some folks reporting benefits, but I've also seen mixed results. "tatertot", of resistant starch fame, was hoping for better results:

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/10/ev ... ent-203405
tatertot wrote: I had a standard lipid profile done last August on LC Paleo, one in April after 3 months after 3 months on PHD and one last week after 3 months of supplementing 4TBS of potato starch while eating PHD style:

Aug 12
Chol – 220
Trigs – 56
HDL – 49
LDL – 155

Apr 13
C – 204
T – 53
H – 52
L – 144

Jul 13
C – 195
T – 68
H – 40
L – 141

So, adding 4TBS of RS dropped my overall cholesterol, including my HDL. This observation has been described in several rat studies. While my doctor will be happy that I lowered my total cholesterol, I don’t know how happy I am. I have spent nearly 3 years getting my HDL up from a low of 21 several years ago, to see a 12 point drop over 3 months is a bit disheartening.

For the next 3-6 months, I think I will be using the potato starch sparingly and see if I can trend my HDL back up.
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Julie G
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Re: MarkES NMR Results

Post by Julie G »

Hmmm. If RS worked as advertised "tatertot" would have not experienced the rise in TGs like he did. Seems to me that many experimenters, including Rob Wolfe, correspondingly UP their carbs because they suddenly think it's safe to do so. At which point, we have to wonder exactly what change (RS or more potatoes) is causing the shift in lipids. I would guess that the ideal experiment would be JUST to add the RS without changing the diet :idea:

Hard to tell if that's what happened with tatertot without a chronometer diary. Regardless, I'm still intrigued with RS for E4s primarily for the blunting of BG spikes and the optimizing of gut bacteria IF it works ;)

I was taking a second look at your particle sizes last night, Mark. I think by cutting carbs (replacing with either fats or protein- you have lots of room in either category,) you might also experience a drop in small LDL and increase in particle size...further decreasing your overall LDL-P. You are a smart guy and seem to be moving in a good direction. Congrats again.

One last thought, too bad the cheap NMR didn't provide more data...but it does offer the basics and may be perfect for the experimentation that many of us are doing.
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Re: MarkES NMR Results

Post by SpunkyPup »

CW wins

failed experiment IMHO..at least proves it does not work for you.
look at your FBG it is highest it has ever been while HDL low and likely dysfunctional.. trigs going up as the fructose is and carbs are causing all the problems with part count # +++. Low cholesterol and saturated fat will cause hormonal problems as not enough substrata despite the livers production and trying to balance. there is post prandrial trig production from excess carbs.
the stool sample I think is not meaningful with poor results and I did not look.
fiber it depends on the types..
cheaper nmr's are incomplete.
zietia 10mg will likely be needed as higher veggies and no fruit will probably not be enough as I suspect you are a hyper-absorber of fat.
you need to walk 60 minutes and do some exercise but it will make you hungry if you go too hard.
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Re: MarkES NMR Results

Post by MarkES »

Juliegee wrote:I'm still intrigued with RS for E4s primarily for the blunting of BG spikes and the optimizing of gut bacteria IF it works
Same here, I'd like to resolve my apparent GI issues.
Juliegee wrote:One last thought, too bad the cheap NMR didn't provide more data...but it does offer the basics and may be perfect for the experimentation that many of us are doing.
I agree. BTW, MDLabs corrected the website content and gave me a discount code, because the Synonyms list contained VLDL-P, which is not included in test. Good customer service.
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Re: MarkES NMR Results

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SpunkyPup wrote:look at your FBG it is highest it has ever been while HDL low and likely dysfunctional
I always appreciate your feedback, SpunkyPup. Yeah, I wasn't crazy about that myself. Although according to Jaminet, I'm right at the optimal range for fasting blood glucose ... although his high-carb, low-carb comments don't seem to be matching my experience (I should have even lower blood glucose).

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/b ... m-glucose/
Paul Jaminet wrote:Optimal blood glucose levels are in the 90 to 100 mg/dl range. High-carb diets cause below-optimal levels of blood glucose, especially during fasts. (Indeed, high-carb dieters routinely experience hunger and irritability during long fasts.) Very low-carb diets cause elevated blood glucose due to the body’s efforts to conserve glucose by suppressing utilization. Excessive suppression of glucose utilization is unhealthy.
SpunkyPup wrote:the stool sample I think is not meaningful with poor results and I did not look
I took this before the vegan diet experiment. I don't feel I can wait for better LDL-P, lipids to pursue it.
SpunkyPup wrote:zietia 10mg will likely be needed as higher veggies and no fruit will probably not be enough as I suspect you are a hyper-absorber of fat
Please help me understand better. I suspect I am a hyper-absorber of fat also, but this vegan experience had so little dietary fat, there wouldn't be much of any to absorb.
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Re: MarkES NMR Results

Post by giftsplash »

Just running a simple correlation on your numbers. Here are a few common threads.

Less carbs more TC
Less carbs more LDL
Less carbs more HDL

More Protein more HDL
More Protein Less TG

More Fat more TC
More Fat more LDL

Of course the types of fats and supplements alter these findings.
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Re: MarkES NMR Results

Post by SpunkyPup »

your BG was fasting or maybe Hb!AC which is average of 30 days once you eat it can go up 30-40 points + and continuing on higher carb will eventually kill the pancreatic islet cells then T2D PaulJaminet was talking about staying in the 90-100 and <110 at all times unless there is an occasional spike which will wake up the thyroid. Life extension foundation has similar recommendation. I tried PHD did not work too hi carb you need more good fats and protein.
you see carbs get converted to trigs and that is the problem long story called digestion.

yes gut health is related but E4 must be mindful of a balanced diet and epigentic adaption from exercise is very helpful
so a vegan diet will not really help look at what Juliegee said about the vegan experiment.. high particle #s!

see comments.. looks like an E4 case quoted from Dayspring example and the guy has the same problem so he went low dose statin but zietia 10mg is a better choice to first try.

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/ ... imary.html

eat a balanced macro nutrient diet <10g sat and more mono fat some 03s moderate carb and protein and improve gut health very similar to what you started eating before testing.

get tested for hyper absorption.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2012/oct ... asy_02.htm
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Re: MarkES NMR Results

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SpunkyPup wrote:so a vegan diet will not really help look at what Juliegee said about the vegan experiment.. high particle #s!
Just noting this was higher small LDL-P. Still lowest LDL-P.
SpunkyPup wrote:I tried PHD did not work too hi carb you need more good fats and protein.
30% carbs does not seem very high. It could work for others. Many examples of healthy people eating much higher carbs.

I appreciate all the feedback and references.
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