New NMR Lipoprofile with MCTs (C8)

[apod]

I just got in on the LEF annual blood sale with a $75 NMR Lipoprofile. This n=1 stuff isn't the cheapest hobby... but I'm very interested in seeing which way the data leads me. I've got the lab requisition sheet which I can cash in anytime until October for advanced lipids testing. I'm thinking I'll go in sometime next week.

I've been doing around 2-3tbs of C8/d for the past month+, which is ~30-40g of MCTs as pure supplemental saturated fat. I've been adding this mostly to HFLC style meals, although I've also had it with some purple stokes sweet potato (post workout) and some berries (dessert.) I've also been experimenting with cooking with it at 315F for 15min or so for exogenous-ketone boosting super kale / collard chips. I could probably bump this up closer to 50g/d if I wanted to get deep into the MCTs (for a better look at how that affects lipids.)

For getting a good look at how these MCTs affect lipids, I'm curious if I might want to stay down in strict HFLC land, or if it makes sense to have these with some post workout / dessert carbs. If I recall, the 5 days leading up to the test have the strongest influence over the results. I'm thinking that I should probably dial back on my cacao intake so that doesn't cloud the results by possibly raising them higher. On cronometer, my TDEE seems to hover around 3,000kcal/d lately.

Thoughts?

[Julie G]

apod, I'm really glad that you're going to do this. I've been very curious about the effect of C8 on advanced lipids. Re. the best way to do the test, do you know where you typically stand re. LDL-P on your typical diet? If so, I would work from your "normal" to try to isolate the effect of the C8. That being said, It would be interesting for you to do two tests: 1.) with your normal HFLC diet and abstain from C8 for one month 2.) your normal HFLC with C8 for one month.

[apod]

So far, I've done 2 NMRs and one SpectraCell CardioMetabolic.

LDL-P with high SFA (animal fat): 1322 (126 small LDL-P)
LDL-P with low SFA & macro + calorie cycling: 908 (<90 small LDL-P)

Maybe if it's over 1300 or the small LDL-P looks "out of whack", it'll be worth dropping and retesting. For the next week or so, I'll level out to ~40g/d. I'm also curious if this has any effect on HDL / TGs.

[Sandy57]

Agree with Julie and can offer the same advice. Have to really watch the variables. Sometimes when you do for example the C8, you also might inadvertently be eating more fat in general on the rest of your diet. Then when you gets results, you say ; ya C8 increased LDL-P. Keep things consistent for a few weeks with the C-8 and then test.

Hate to say it, but the best way is to count all macros; to the point of weighing and measuring everything. It is a pain in the butt , but it is the only realible way to really know. Brah like I always say , impressed as hell with your dedication and constant quest for knowledge. Great job man!,
Frank

[apod]

Here's about where I'm at lately (the last data point is a little low since I haven't really eaten yet.) :

Screen Shot 2017-04-25 at 4.36.38 PM.png

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Protein has been high, since I've been doing a bit of heavy lifting and running (and craving a bit more red meat than usual.) I checked BUN last month and it was 14 mg/dL (maybe I wasn't quite eating as much back then? But I doubt I was eating considerably less.) It looks like I'm averaging around 200g/d of fat at ~20% net carbs if you round out the post-workout carby days. Other days are clocking in around 50g net carbs. With my TDEE ~2,600 - 3,000kcal, cronometer suggests that I can stay ketogenic up to around 60g net carbs. With the 40g of MCT, it's sort of moot point whether or not I'm in nutritional ketosis via carb-restriction. Interestingly, cronometer suggests that the largest single source of my carbs (outside of a couple post-workout carby days) is largely avocado, followed by kiwi + berries.

The variables are a pain to lock down indeed! It looks as though I'm consistently inconsistent... haha. I'll level things out a bit prior to the NMR Lipoprofile (although, perhaps that itself has some effect on the labs.)

In my spare time, I've been playing with writing a sort of cronometer alternative... but it's quite the unending project. The goal is to collect more data with less effort to find more useful associations.

[Sandy57]

Great work Apod.
Frank

[Gratefuldawg]

Here's about where I'm at lately (the last data point is a little low since I haven't really eaten yet.) :

Screen Shot 2017-04-25 at 4.36.38 PM.png

Screen Shot 2017-04-25 at 4.37.25 PM.png

Screen Shot 2017-04-25 at 4.40.11 PM.png

Protein has been high, since I've been doing a bit of heavy lifting and running (and craving a bit more red meat than usual.) I checked BUN last month and it was 14 mg/dL (maybe I wasn't quite eating as much back then? But I doubt I was eating considerably less.) It looks like I'm averaging around 200g/d of fat at ~20% net carbs if you round out the post-workout carby days. Other days are clocking in around 50g net carbs. With my TDEE ~2,600 - 3,000kcal, cronometer suggests that I can stay ketogenic up to around 60g net carbs. With the 40g of MCT, it's sort of moot point whether or not I'm in nutritional ketosis via carb-restriction. Interestingly, cronometer suggests that the largest single source of my carbs (outside of a couple post-workout carby days) is largely avocado, followed by kiwi + berries.

The variables are a pain to lock down indeed! It looks as though I'm consistently inconsistent... haha. I'll level things out a bit prior to the NMR Lipoprofile (although, perhaps that itself has some effect on the labs.)

In my spare time, I've been playing with writing a sort of cronometer alternative... but it's quite the unending project. The goal is to collect more data with less effort to find more useful associations.

apod, what are your main sources of protein? This is another area where I am struggling to meet my daily needs. Thx


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[apod]

My protein sources are pretty diverse. I'm eating salmon, shrimp, antelope, venison, bison, beef, sardines, oysters, clams, scallops, eggs, whey, gelatin, etc., plus lots of plants which does add up (~40-50g some days just from the sum of the low-protein plants.) I do bone broths with whole chickens and with beef marrow bones. Lately, I'm kind of liking hydrolyzed gelatin in my tea. I have to sort of consciously restrict protein intake to hit under 80g/d. Even going meat-free, if I start to incorporate more legume, I'm still over 80g (while carbs + fiber increase.) I also like some branched chain amino acids or essential amino acids with glutamine around workouts, although I do sort of cycle these.

I've noticed that more meals usually = more protein for me. If I'm eating 3-4 meals, it's a lot easier to overdo the protein than say just 1 or 2 meals.

[apod]

Alright, I got my results back.

LDL-P: 1453 (high)
Total Cholesterol: 243 mg/dL (high)
LDL-C: 138 mg/dL (high)
HDL-C: 92 mg/dL (optimal)
Triglycerides: 65mg/dL (optimal)
Small LDL-P: <90 (optimal)
HDL-P: 38.7
LDL Size: 21.7 - Large Pattern A (optimal)
LP-IR Score: <27 (optimal)

TG/HDL Ratio: 0.71
TC/HDL Ratio: 2.64

It looks like this does pack quite the HDL boost without much affect on small dense particles or triglycerides, but ultimately this increases TC and LDL-P, as these are the highest LDL-P / TC measurements I've recorded to date. It seems like trading the MCTs back for MUFAs might be in my best interest (and maybe I could cut back on the cacao as well)... I might do this and test again, or probably just wait until next year.

Interestingly, my HDL-P was flagged as "low" on both of my previous NMR Lipoprofile tests, while this one was up into the ideal range.

[Gilgamesh]

This kind of recording of data AND reporting it (here on our forum) takes a huge effort, so a big thanks.

About this –

In my spare time, I've been playing with writing a sort of CRON-O-Meter alternative... but it's quite the unending project. The goal is to collect more data with less effort to find more useful associations.

– let me say: I heartily support such an effort. I was, somewhat loosely, connected to the origins of CRON-O-Meter as one of the desired potential replacements for the ancient program Roy Walford put out in connection with his CR advocacy in the '90s (or was even '80s?! – time passes). CRON-O-Meter was a huge improvement but it would be great to have a better program. (Ideally not web-based.)

If you did some sort of kickstarter program, I'd be first in line to contribute.

G