Vegan Newbie, Accidental 4/4 discovery, Terrified

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
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MarcR
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Re: Vegan Newbie, Accidental 4/4 discovery, Terrified

Post by MarcR »

ZenGinner, I would add that some exceptionally high-powered and persuasive recent studies associate cholesterol in the 200-300 range with LONGER life. Cholesterol in the sub-200 range recommended by traditional medical authorities is associated with SHORTER lifespans.

Consider this 8-year study of 100,000+ people without preexisting diabetes or heart disease. Besides being exceptionally high powered and lengthy, the study is especially applicable to those of us who are insulin sensitive because it excluded sick people and focused on a cross-section of middle-aged individuals who navigated the contemporary nutritional minefield reasonably well to 1997.

The effect is not small. As per Table I, in your age group, those with total cholesterol between 193 and 232 experienced death at 73% of the rates of those with TC < 193, and those with TC between 232 and 309 experienced death only 68% as often as those with TC < 193.

With that in mind, I wonder about your intention to discontinue coconut oil. If you do, I suggest that you take care to replace it with other healthy fats that fit your vegan requirements (e.g. olives and extra virgin olive oil, avocados and avocado oil, tree nuts).

I do concur with others here that cutting sugar and thereby eliminating visceral fat (belly bulge) would be beneficial. Visceral fat cells are metabolically active and pernicious. You'll know you have dialed it in when your belly goes flat, but if you want a biomarker to target, I suggest triglycerides < HDL.

Finally, if you want to dive deeper into the lipid issue, I recommend these two threads:

Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat
Rethinking the etiology of CAD
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Re: Vegan Newbie, Accidental 4/4 discovery, Terrified

Post by Anab »

Kathleen let me just say I totally understand all you have said. I received my results exactly the same way. Accidentally and it put me under the covers for days in total fear until I had a good conversation regarding it being only a marker. I have become compulsive to the point of confusion trying to decide what is the best approach. Being a 4 (3/4 for me) we don't process fat well.... What I am trying to know from others is it just sat fat or all fat. I have not had red meat in 40 years. Not vegan but was pure vegetarian for 15 and now being told fish (white) and shell
Fish are important. (I don't like either). I have read Pam Mcdonald gene diet and now I have discovered dr steven Gundry. He is cardiologist and guru of apoe 4. I don't have any answers as of yet. Much conflicting info out there. But I'm certainly here to share the journey. I too have just recently found this sight. We need to sift through the info and proceed .... As efficiently and direct as possible. Hope others weigh in. I think the beginning of this is probably the most frightening and most complicated time. I know I will feel better when I have my path carved out and know what I'm doing
Take good care and thanks for sharing. You are not alone
Ana


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Re: Vegan Newbie, Accidental 4/4 discovery, Terrified

Post by slacker »

Hey Ana; thanks for posting! Start your own story line in "Our Stories" when you are comfortable. Your ApoE4 tribe awaits you!
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Re: Vegan Newbie, Accidental 4/4 discovery, Terrified

Post by Anab »

slacker wrote:Hey Ana; thanks for posting! Start your own story line in "Our Stories" when you are comfortable. Your ApoE4 tribe awaits you!
Thank you and I will. It's really good to Have a tribe. It's a daunting reality....but not a death sentence for sure.


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Re: Vegan Newbie, Accidental 4/4 discovery, Terrified

Post by buck3Maureen »

Hi Zenginner,
I am vegan also and had marginal lipid numbers. I was eating a lot of coconut oil. I dropped it and my LDL went down 30 points.
I also added a quarter cup of flax seed to my 'paleo porridge' and that might have also helped.
Welcome and don't panic.
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Re: Vegan Newbie, Accidental 4/4 discovery, Terrified

Post by ZenGinner »

Maureen:

Thanks! I figure I will just have to use the coconut oil for my hair and skin, now.

Have you read all the info about lectins and inflammatory vegan protein sources?
I am finding it a bit hard to follow. Can you give me a good source to start with? (I didn't see it in the primer.)
Is that all from Gundys book?

Thanks!
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Re: Vegan Newbie, Accidental 4/4 discovery, Terrified

Post by ZenGinner »

MarcR:
Thanks for the thoughtful and encouraging reply.
It is comforting that the cholesterol may not be the worst part.
What did you mean by: " but if you want a biomarker to target, I suggest triglycerides < HDL"?
The coconut oil is a big loss for me. I currently use unrefined coconut milk in my coffee in the morning, and cook with the coconut oil. I also eat at least 1/2-1 avocado a day, and do nuts. I use EVOO, but like the taste/texture of the coconut better. Oh, well.

The links will be very helpful.
I will start exploring that too, as soon as I catch up.
KK
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Re: Vegan Newbie, Accidental 4/4 discovery, Terrified

Post by ZenGinner »

Anab:

Yay, another veggie folk!
Yeah, even if I wanted to, I don't really have the option of shell-fish. I am allergic.
Additionally, I had an unexpected reaction to fish (in a food without my knowledge).
So, I won't be adding that to my diet.

I am having a bit of a difficulty digesting it all, as well.
The lectins and inflammatory vegan protein issues are confusing me a bit.
I figure I should get some of the books to read, as I assume those are the basis for the discussions?

I am doing away with sugar. And, considering the Gundry Vital Reds. I have ordered additional Vegan Omega, and added DHA/EPA supplements. I guess I am also going to discontinue the coconut oil.

I am not clear on the issue with grains. Carbs? Or inflammation?
I usually pressure cook bean (for speed) and brown rice.
I have never soaked my tree nuts. Frankly, it doesn't appeal to me. But, I think that prevents the inflammatory effect?
So much I don't get, yet. Guess I need a book or two.

Also, I figured since I already have the crappy news, I will do the 23andMe, to see how much more traumatic it can get. LOL

Thanks for reaching out! I will let you know if I get a handle on it in a way that will help.
KK
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Re: Vegan Newbie, Accidental 4/4 discovery, Terrified

Post by SusanJ »

Gundry has a theory that lectins cause inflammation leading to heart disease. He is a clinician, not a researcher, but some of our members report good lab results (low inflammatory markers) in following his low lectin diet. As a vegan, you need to get your protein somewhere, and pressure cooking your beans supposedly reduces the lectin load. If you can stand it, eggs might be another good option (I know, it takes you out of the vegan status).

Soaking nuts takes out the phytates. If you don't have trouble digesting nuts, I probably wouldn't worry about that step. I don't soak mine. And WRT coconut oil, I use avocado oil for cooking. It is a very neutral flavor and high in MUFAs. I save the olive oil mostly for my salads or dressing vegetables.

Cutting out added sugar is huge. It will help improve your insulin sensitivity. Many of us think this is the number one priority.

Just remember that whatever you choose to do, it must be sustainable over the long haul for you!
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Re: Vegan Newbie, Accidental 4/4 discovery, Terrified

Post by slacker »

ZenGinner wrote: What did you mean by: " but if you want a biomarker to target, I suggest triglycerides < HDL"?
I'm not Marc, but can translate for you: Triglyceride value ideally less than HDL value. So if HDL is 80, shoot for trigs less than 80. (< means less than, > means more than). I believe by "biomarker to target", he's talking about cholesterol or lipid measurement. The ratio of trigs to HDL seems to be accurate to help determine coronary artery risk, according to some study I can't quote for you here, but if you are curious you may be able to find it via the search function on our website.
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