Experiences with FMD/multi-day fasts

[Gilgamesh]

(Continued from Designing an E4 fasting trial thread.)

But, meanwhile, I had a curiously cool and positive experience and am ready to push it out to at least six days (that doesn't include my low-cal descent days), starting now! Though, at least as randomly as you, I'll TRY to wait a full ten days.

I waited twelve days.

This time, I decided to go down in energy-intake more quickly.

Last time – my calorie totals for each day:

2220
1618
1061
755
468
400
374
1200 [strike]325[/strike] (went by feel here at dinner: decided I needed to eat a bunch of nuts)

This time, so far:

914 (A bit more protein – 40 g in total – because still recovering from previous fast)
404
313
343
337
350 (today)

I came across a quirky case study of a man whose SEID (CFIDS/ME) appears to have been cured via a long fast:

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/in ... _1158/_pdf

I don't place much stock in case studies, but I'm tempted to keep going for a few more days, just to see what happens.

So far I feel great, aside from one problem that always arises after a couple days' fast for me: extreme difficulty sleeping. I think I'm going to take a z drug (I have all three on hand). The harm of a few days' usage is probably minimal.

Another report later. But main point now: although the science on long-term fasts is very thin, anyone thinking they don't want to try this because s/he thinks it will be difficult: think again. It might not be. For me, aside from the sleep, it's easy, and even fun!

G

[Bettylacy]

Adding my 2 cents in on sleep. When I began ketogenic diet in early March of this year my sleep was very affected as my weight dropped to 115lbs ( BMI 18.6). I was experiencing un- restorative sleep with frequent awakenings and hardness falling back to sleep. I added more calories and increased my fat and some god for bid (GIF) carbs and felt better per Susanj's suggestion. Additionally I have added Lithium in microdosing 5mg @ nite and it has helped sleep tremendously. No wakening and up early raring to go.

[Gilgamesh]

Betty, thanks for the tip about lithium! Like many here, I normally take 1 mg/day (though not when I'm in a part of the world where there's plenty in the drinking water), but I'll try 5 mg tonight.

G

[Stavia]

Who takes lithium? I remember we discussed it years ago but don't remember any convincing evidence?
If there's new evidence I'd love to hear...

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[Gilgamesh]

Hey gang,

Well, I got to day seven, and, just as before, decided to stop by late afternoon, and had around 800 calories of nuts for dinner. Was really losing my mental focus, and it somehow didn't feel healthy. ("Why was it that I walked into the living room?")

On the whole the fast was a very positive experience. In the future I think I'm going to time these longer fasts for conferences or trips where it's easier not to eat (much) than to try to deal with eating my weird diet away from home.

<> Supplements.

I got a decent multivitamin/-mineral supplement and took a third or so (a third of RDAs for most of the vits./minerals) with each of my two meals.

I stopped most other supplements. Didn't want to "over-hormetisize" ("hormesisize"?).

<> Exercise.

I exercised per normal: 40–60 mins. moderate aerobic exercise/day (jogging/very brisk walking with leg weights), usually in divided sessions, and minimal but intense resistance training. Saw, based on number of reps I could do with my res. training, no evidence of muscle loss.

Generally felt strong when doing my aerobic workouts until Day 6, when I started getting a bit sluggish.

<> Biomarkers.

I didn't do serious testing. Next time, I hope. But my BP went from a normal 127/70 to 100/60 by Day 4 (and didn't go lower), and morning glucose went from a normal 80 mg/dL to 62 by Day 4.

<> Weight.

Morning body weight (normalized to typical morning gut contents) went from 70.5 kg to 67.8 kg.


S- No, no new evidence about Li. For me a near coin-toss when I do a cost-benefit analysis. But I check the lithium content of the water supply when I move. If it's normal or high, no point in supplementing, I reckon.

Note: the 5 mg may actually have helped me sleep! Will have to try a few more times.

G

[Ski]

So on day 5 of my first FMD type fast.
Day 1 - 725 calories fats=49% carbs=40% protein=10%
Day 2 - 625 calories fats=45% carbs=43% protein=11%
Day 3-5 - 525 calories fats=41% carbs=45% protein=13%

Food consisted of avocados, nuts, sweet potato and some cauliflower. I did drink black coffee. Also supplemented magnesium, salt and potassium.

As a food snacker I knew it was going to be hard and it is/was. 3pm-8pm were the worst periods. Only times it seemed easier/okay were the mornings. Day 2 definitely the hardest. I pushed out eating till around noon then again at 7pm. But there were not any days I "wasn't hungry" as some people report. I worked out Day 1 then did walks the other days totaling close to an hour of walking but there was no way I would have been able to exercise. I was pretty weak and even my walks were slowed and there were a couple of days that I had a tingling sensation in my legs, post walks. Sleeping.....yes, this affected my sleep profoundly. I normally have no problem sleeping but didn't sleep as deeply and was waking every 2 hours or so.

Glucose started out on day 1 at 77 in morning. All other mornings ranged between 64-67. During the day I did get readings between 58-61. Cognitively I would say I was worse. I certainly never felt any clear headed euphoria. I was able to work ok, but definitely felt more "fuzzy". Maybe for folks that are better keto adapted, this clarity comes easier as well as being able to work out. I would say on Day 5, it now feels a little better.
No headaches (probably cos I never limited my caffeine), no cramps, no real issues besides the expected.

So my takeaway is...(after further thought) There are folks where fasting is simply easier...their bodies are better suited for fasting. Whether that means they start in a better state due to existing diet or simply thru genetic makeup. Just like everything else where its N=1. I would seem to think that those that can go 12-14 hrs between meals fairly easily means they can fast easier too. My body is accustomed to eating smaller meals but more often and hence why I knew it would be hard. But its also hard to do, when you simply dont experience the supposed benefits from it and have to hope that internally there is indeed benefit going on.

[NewRon]

http://agingadvice.org/FMD-Recipes.html

I've done this FMD a few times now. It was actually fine despite my large appetite. I ate around 11.30am and around 5-6pm. Water outside of this...actually I think I had some green tea around 10am in the mornings. It was a bit of a pain to prepare this food (especially since I'm as far from a vegan one can get) so I'm itching to get my hands on the real Prolon diet.

I also found a glucose meter that does ketones, so I can check my next FMD.

I would also add, that it made me realize that a lot of the desire to eat is just a habit. I now eat first around 11am and usually finish eating (a large VEGAN salad!!!) by 7-7.30pm.

[CarrieS]

Who takes lithium? I remember we discussed it years ago but don't remember any convincing evidence?
If there's new evidence I'd love to hear...

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My FM doctor put me on 20 mg of Lithium orotate as a brain protection measure. I balked at 20 mg thinking that 5 mg was a better sounding dose. I finally started to take it and after a few days experienced fatigue, brain fog and profound sadness. So profoundly sad that suicide sounded good. Scared me to the core. I stopped taking it and came back to my alert, positive self within a couple of days. Not very many people has that experience. Maybe I'm just sensitive. I thought it interesting that my gut feeling said that the dose was too much.

[Ski]

NewRon - That site with the recipes seemed like too much work. My foods are simple...very simple and makes it much easier to plan and just get it done with the same macro's.

[Bhinebaugh]

Question on fasting that I don't see answered in Dr. Fungs book. I know he recommends taking a multivitamin, mag, and potassium. My question is on fish oil. Are those of you fasting taking this supplement? I've been doing 16 hour fasts but now am thinking of doing a 3 day fast. Just trying to get anyone's wisdom or experience with a longer fast. Thanks.


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