Bioimpedence says I'm inflamed

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Jafa
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Bioimpedence says I'm inflamed

Post by Jafa »

Hi everyone, Great to read the posts from the conference, thanks Stavia.

We are mid Atlantic on a ship on the first leg of our return journey downunder. We took advantage of the opportunity to have a consultation with the fitness director on board with the aim of rebuilding muscle we have lost on the LCHF diet. Part of this was a bioimpedence test of body composition. Dr Jafa was boringly normal but my test was shocking. Not unexpectedly my bone and muscle mass are poor (dry mass of 5kgs), that I was malnourished but the big surprise was a really elevated extracellular water fraction. He said I am very inflamed and that he doesn't see this degree of abnormality very often. Now I'm freaked out given the role of inflammation in AD and CVD. He was pretty nonspecific as to what the causes might be, but suggested chemical exposure, toxins or stress.

I'm concerned that the toxin in my case might be mercury, exacerbated by bone resorption as highlighted on the forum recently. Or maybe it's many years of hair dying. Of course, the other explanation might be that bioimpedence, even modern multichannel measurement, might be unreliable, or the interpretation might be spurious? After all, my CRP is less than 1.

Does anyone have any expertise in this field? Your help would be appreciated.
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Stavia
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Re: Bioimpedence says I'm inflamed

Post by Stavia »

Jafa, what machine is this? Sounds like woo...

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apod
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Re: Bioimpedence says I'm inflamed

Post by apod »

Rebuilding the muscle tissue should be relatively straight forward with increased workout volume, increased dietary protein, and whatever you can do to lower inflammation -- if your CRP is less than 1, you might not actually be very inflamed (are you stiff & sore?) Perhaps you just need more potassium in your diet as a diuretic?

I'm used to seeing a natural ebb and flow to my own water retention (which actually shows on my impedance scale as a fluctuation in body fat rather than water weight) when I increase glycogen and rack up a little bit of localized damage following a previous day's hard workout. I believe some of the latest research shows you can possibly build more muscle with LCHF than with a traditional diet, although I don't have the study on hand.
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Re: Bioimpedence says I'm inflamed

Post by pguyer807 »

Jafa wrote:Hi everyone, Great to read the posts from the conference, thanks Stavia.

We are mid Atlantic on a ship on the first leg of our return journey downunder. We took advantage of the opportunity to have a consultation with the fitness director on board with the aim of rebuilding muscle we have lost on the LCHF diet. Part of this was a bioimpedence test of body composition. Dr Jafa was boringly normal but my test was shocking. Not unexpectedly my bone and muscle mass are poor (dry mass of 5kgs), that I was malnourished but the big surprise was a really elevated extracellular water fraction. He said I am very inflamed and that he doesn't see this degree of abnormality very often. Now I'm freaked out given the role of inflammation in AD and CVD. He was pretty nonspecific as to what the causes might be, but suggested chemical exposure, toxins or stress.

I'm concerned that the toxin in my case might be mercury, exacerbated by bone resorption as highlighted on the forum recently. Or maybe it's many years of hair dying. Of course, the other explanation might be that bioimpedence, even modern multichannel measurement, might be unreliable, or the interpretation might be spurious? After all, my CRP is less than 1.

Does anyone have any expertise in this field? Your help would be appreciated.
Hi Jaffa,

I use bioimpedence at my health club. This sounds crazy to
me. This sends tiny current through body to detect resistance.
This resistance theoretically can measure body fat vs lean tissue.
I can't possibly see how he would have any specific information on bone density. This test can't separate bone from lean mass vs
fat mass. The test is highly inaccurate if you are dehydrated.

I would enjoy my vacation and call this quackery!


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Jafa
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Re: Bioimpedence says I'm inflamed

Post by Jafa »

Thanks for your replies. Internet access on the ship is fiendishly expensive, effectively preventing me from researching the validity and import of the verbal bioimpedence report, so I'm grateful for the information offered by forum members.

Stavia - we get the written report tomorrow and will ensure Dr Jafa asks a few more questions about the machine and the software.

Apod - thanks, your comment really takes me back to the basics of why we saw the trainer, resistance programmer and some dietary advice for muscle building. It's funny, after the workout yesterday, the test subject (me) is fine, but the control subject (Dr Jafa) can barely hold his toothbrush, haha.

Pguyer - to be fair, the bioimpedence report identified dry/lean mass, the consideration of bone density was my leap, perhaps reflecting my concerns, and I do plan to address these by a proper DEXA test when I get home.

Thanks to all again.
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Stavia
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Re: Bioimpedence says I'm inflamed

Post by Stavia »

miss you guys. See you soon and no worrying allowed on holiday !!

If its that machine you stand on and hold handles as well and it gives a breakdown of fat and water and etc.... they're very inaccurate. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16215137

In my reading, I think only a Dexa and Bodpod (total immersion in water thingy) gives accurate enough results of body composition.

I suspect the trainer uses it because a. he can and b. makes him look more sciencey and hence more credible.

Snake oil my darling Jafa. Please dont worry.

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Jafa
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Re: Bioimpedence says I'm inflamed

Post by Jafa »

Hi Stavia, Dr Jafa with my skeptic hat on. The machine used for body composition analysis was a Bodystat multi-channel bio impedance meter. Multiple frequencies across paired skin electrodes, and I'm guessing some software that makes a number of standard assumptions, with the outputs more derived in some areas than others. Gives figures for body water, and a split btw intracellular, extracellular and 3rd space fractions, lean body mass and fat mass. I asked about the methodology behind splitting the water fractions and it is related to the electrolyte concentrations and conductance/resistance.

My numbers were as expected, Jafa's a bit odd in that very low (as in 5-6kg) lean body mass, elevated total body water with way high ECW fraction. Trainer says sensitivity of the test is 93% (for what exactly I don't know) and no comment on specificity. I would have redone the test at the least given his comment that the elevated ECW result was not often seen to that degree, but his explanation was something along the lines of fat soluble toxins and pericellular oedema as a result of inflammation (more than mild freak out). I agree that the most likely explanation is 2 plus 2 (with a range of 1-4) equals 5, but with internet access being ridiculously slow and expensive mid-Atlantic, I've not been able to research the basis for predictive values for the results offered by bio impedence.

Jafa is precariously close to 50kg, we will take advantage of the stimulus to increase dietary protein intake and get a programme going for regular resistance exercise, but beyond that, will have to get some more data to be able to weigh the credibility of the new info.

And on a lighter note, and to Jafa's amusement, have you ever tried putting on sunglasses when your triceps insertions are on fire after a workout...definitely 1st world problem. Haha, and see you soon.
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Stavia
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Re: Bioimpedence says I'm inflamed

Post by Stavia »

hi Dr Jafa! miss you. Love the image of the owie triceps!

Specificity of this machine is IMO crucial here. What the trainer said sounds like him trying on the "bullsh*t baffles brains "...

Missus Jafa probably needs to increase her calories. Maybe less volume of the non starchy veggies and more calorically dense food?

see you soon xx

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