Interventions had OPPOSITE impact on lab results!

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
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KatieS
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Re: Interventions had OPPOSITE impact on lab results!

Post by KatieS »

jcosmo, Since LDL can alter quickly within days, are you considering returning to the first diet and a quick re-test to confirm that this diet did seem to render better benefits? As to statins, you might want to provide what statins benefitted your parents without ill effects. If you're middle-aged, consider a calcium scan and/or a carotid intimal measurement to ascertain if you have atherosclerosis, which if present at a high level, might lean one towards statins, but if not present, supports a more conservative approach. Lp(a) is another independent familial cardiovascular risk factor that you might want to include in your next lab testing.
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Re: Interventions had OPPOSITE impact on lab results!

Post by jcosmo »

Thank you for the advice. I'll be 31 next week, but my dad was just 44 when he had an MI and a triple bypass. He had an adverse reaction to the first statin he tried (simvastatin?) but I'm not sure if it was muscle cramps or actual rhabdomyolysis. My preference would be to establish a more favorable lipid profile through diet alone, and would rather turn to statins only as a last resort if all else fails... but if further testing finds evidence of atherosclerosis, I'll definitely reconsider.

If I can't find a specialist who can order these additional tests and is willing to try lifestyle interventions before medication, then I will continue to tweak my diet on my own and order a repeat NMR Lipoprofile before going back to my GP for medical intervention. I want to at least get my HDL back up, triglycerides and IR score back down first. If LDL is the only thing I can't manage on my own, I can live with that.
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Julie G
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Re: Interventions had OPPOSITE impact on lab results!

Post by Julie G »

jcosmo, a TSH test by itself doesn't give much information, if I'm understanding you correctly. If that's all your doctor ordered thyroid-wise, then he/she is probably fine with the lab's reference range, which is not optimal.

I should mention that thyroid antibodies are often tested with thyroid hormones as well, at least when ordered by a doctor who is savvy about the thyroid.
Another quick thought: supplementing with iodine can upregulate the thyroid antibodies that Alysson describes having a paradoxically negative effect on thyroid function.

Kudos for fasting. Many of us aim for 16+ hours as this helps promote authophagy and cholesterol clearance. As you know, exercise is so important for our genotype. Try to include something every day, even if it's just a short walk. Park far from your office or the grocery store. Take the stairs instead of the elevator. Over time, as you get used to juggling all of these strategies, you can expand on your exercise protocol. In putting together a bigger picture, it would be helpful to know your gender and BMI. At your young age, I'm assuming that your BP is good, right?
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Re: Interventions had OPPOSITE impact on lab results!

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I might've temporarily screwed up my thyroid with a large dose of sulforaphane in the form of broccoli sprouts every morning for 30 days... though I dug up an old TSH from 7/2016 (drawn after 2 weeks on a ketogenic diet) and it was 3.13, so maybe thyroid function has always been lower than it should be. My temperature is often 96.x or 97.x.

I'm male with a BMI that generally ranges from 18.7 - 19.2. Systolic blood pressure generally ranges from the high 80s to 105 or 110, despite a high daily sodium intake (+1640 mg from a medication I take twice each night). I will be making an effort to become more physically active. When I had the first NMR LP drawn in Dec 2016, I was doing a lot of cleaning/packing every day, getting ready to move, which could've contributed to the high HDL and better values overall.
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Re: Interventions had OPPOSITE impact on lab results!

Post by jcosmo »

After reading through the "Cholesterol, Lipids and Treatments, including statins" Wiki, this is my next experiment (or my new way of life, if it works):

1. Calorie restriction to 80%.
2. Strict adherence to 16/8. Whatever I don't eat by the 8th hour will be moved from today's list to tomorrow's list.
3. Adding eggs and dairy back to my diet but trying to limit to 2 eggs/2 oz. cheese daily.
4. HIIT exercise at least 4x/week.
5. Started taking Omega-3 fish oil again.

And I'm not sure how difficult this will be (if it's even practical) but I'm trying to work out the best way to keep the PUFA:SFA ratio at or above 0.15. (1.5 gm omega-3 for every 10 gm saturated fat.) I'm basing that on this:
“In a metabolic study, no effects of SFAs (22% versus 10% total energy) derived from coconut oil were observed on LDL-C, TC, or apoB when the polyunsaturated fat:saturated fat (P:S) ratio was kept constant at ~0.15. In contrast, higher P:S ratios, i.e., 1.9 versus 0.14, in the context of diets with 38% of energy from fat, were associated with significantly lower ratios of LDL to HDL. These data suggest that the proportions of fatty acids may be more important in modulating CVD risk than the absolute amount of SFAs and PUFAs per se.”
I fasted 24 hours from Sunday to Monday, 20.5 from Monday dinner to breakfast today. Fasting BG was 103 yesterday, 115 today :( Today's net carbs came to 26 gm (I usually stay at or under 20) so maybe the increased CHO count will lessen the physiological IR effect of ketosis.

After a month, I'll order another NMR Lipoprofile and post the results.
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Re: Interventions had OPPOSITE impact on lab results!

Post by circular »

jcosmo wrote:I might've temporarily screwed up my thyroid with a large dose of sulforaphane in the form of broccoli sprouts every morning for 30 days... though I dug up an old TSH from 7/2016 (drawn after 2 weeks on a ketogenic diet) and it was 3.13, so maybe thyroid function has always been lower than it should be. My temperature is often 96.x or 97.x.
You might look up Dr. Rhonda Patrick's two podcasts on broccoli sprouts (I think there were two). She doesn't seem concerned about the goiterogenic potential of broccoli sprouts, but I can't quote her. I just remember being appeased that I didn't have to worry about it since I decided to just trust her research and perspective.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Re: Interventions had OPPOSITE impact on lab results!

Post by jcosmo »

I saw my GP this morning. She did want to put me on a statin, but I asked for a referral to a lipidologist/cardiologist instead. I'm not obese or diabetic, I don't smoke, I'm not hypertensive... BP was 100/61 this morning. So my lipid profile and family history of heart disease are my only risk factors right now. (IMO, "genetic risk factors" and "family history" are 2 different ways to say the same thing.) She gave me the referral, and when I called to schedule the appointment, the earliest available was the week of 1/08/18 - so I have time to see if this round of interventions had the desired effect.

I started taking fish oil capsules yesterday, but I'm going to stop after reading in this thread that it's not a good idea: https://apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=526

I also remembered that I was adding 2 tsp of inulin to each cup of coffee I drank back when I had the first NMR lipoprofile done, so I'm going to start doing that again.
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Re: Interventions had OPPOSITE impact on lab results!

Post by Orangeblossom »

I hope your appointment goes well.

I am also confused on fish oil. I thought it was good but then read in this article can increase LDL in APOE4's. However it seemed in high does like 3g a day, not the around 1g DHA I am aiming for. If anyone would like to comment on this and if has caused problems for them, that would be helpful, perhaps. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3915

Also, I just remembered something I read about when people fast and lose weight and possibly in ketosis that sometimes, their triclycerides can rise for a while to start with and this settles down with time? I could be wrong about that but just thought I would mention as may be something to consider. I am not sure why it was, however. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will have heard of it and know what I mean. If it is the case. I don;t think it was specific to APOE.
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Re: Interventions had OPPOSITE impact on lab results!

Post by ru442 »

From a personal experience, my TG's were consistently in the 1000+ range without meds before I found out about my status, with meds was able to get them in the low 100's. After I started my LCHF keto journey and tested 3 months into it they had dropped to less than 100 (check my intro for details if you like). I've since stopped all meds but a statin, I've had some spikes over 100 (cause I was drinking some wine ;)) but so far so good.
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Re: Interventions had OPPOSITE impact on lab results!

Post by HomesteadGal »

jcosmo, I second the earlier suggestion that you get a calcium scan before making decisions. Your arteries may be a train wreck or they may be surprisingly wide open. Hard to treat something you haven't seen, yet. Your LDL may be floating around in your bloodstream and not depositing in the walls of your arteries. It doesn't give you messy arteries every time.
You may also want to follow the work of Dave Feldman, whose lipids sure didn't do what he expected, either...I believe that Dave is APOE 3/4 and his website is cholesterolcode.com
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