My !POSITIVE! test results for mycotoxins testing through Great Plains Laboratory

[TheBrain]

The Gupta course is an organized well presented overview of the Shoemaker protocol. It does include triggers other than mold for CIRS, perhaps not in as much detail. There is very little on tick borne disease. A bit on MARCONs. I don't remember very much explanation of the science. Good summary of lab tests.

I haven't been too impressed with Gupta's private Facebook page recently. I posted a general air quality HEPA filter question 2-3 weeks ago with no answer. Some member ask questions specifically about their situation, and are appropriately asked to schedule a consult.

Slacker, thanks for sharing about your experience with the Gupta course. I’m rather OCD right now with learning about mold illness, so I’ve been wondering if the course is too basic for me. I‘m sure I would learn some things, but I think I’ll pass, especially given your recent experience with the Faceboook group.

I recently came across the names of three Facebook groups that address toxic mold. I’ll see if I can find them. I believe they were mentioned in a reader’s comment on the Biotoxin Journey site.

I am not aware of other ways of interpreting the HLA DR/DQ. What is your source, TheBrain?

In a previous post, I mention the two “dreaded” mold-susceptible haplotypes (11-3-53 and 4-3-52) that Jill Carnahan discusses in her interview. I don’t know what her source is, as those haplotypes aren’t in the Shoemaker list, and she doesn’t say where she got them from.

I have two mold-susceptible haplotypes: 7-2-53 and 17-2-52B. The 17-2-52B is not in Shoemaker’s official list, although 17-2-52A is. In a FAQ at http://www.survivingmold.com/faq/hla, Dr. Shoemaker says “HLA 17-2-52B and 52A are equivalent.” Well then, why doesn’t he add 17-2-52B to his official list?

[TheBrain]

Here’s a list of Mold Illness Discussion Forums. All but one are Facebook groups.

[slacker]

I'm following up on the recent conversation here on HLA DR/DQ interpretation.

Dr Shoemaker has his interpretation chart on survivingmold.com which TheBrain linked somewhere above. He reports the dreaded haplotypes as 4-3-53, 11/12-3-52, and 14-5-52B (if I'm transcribing correctly!). I have the genetic pleasure of having a 14-5-52B haplotype. The other, 10-5, is "benign." Maybe I should be celebrating the benign one!

The hard working TheBrain also listed a different set of dreaded haplotypes from a webcast with Dr Jill Hanrahan: 11-3-53 and 4-3-52. I'm wondering if Dr JH misspoke and switched the 53 and 52 around. Don't know.

The biotoxin journey website that TheBrain also has kindly linked somewhere above, has the same 4 dreaded haplotypes as Dr Shoemaker's site. This site also mentions that "there are a total of 54 known haplotypes – see page 716 in the book “Surviving Mold”. Alternatively, upon completion of the Biotoxin Test, you’ll be shown the 54 haplotypes". The Biotoxin test appears to be free on the biotoxin journey website, and looks like a questionnaire.

This website lists what appears to be 54 haplotypes (I didn't count!). It's the same website that has the HLA calculator that is referenced by the biotoxin journey website.

Hope this helps further the conversation and not the confusion!

[TheBrain]

Slacker, thanks for your post. I've posted a question in the comment section on the page where the Dr. Carnahan interview is featured. I asked if perhaps she misspoke about those two "dreaded" haplotypes and explained why. At first, it looked like I was the only commenter. But after I posted, other comments became visible. Someone else made a similar comment in April 2016, but only about one of the haplotypes. She didn't get a response, so I doubt I will.

At this point, unless we learn otherwise, I think it's safe to assume Dr. Carnahan misspoke. She mentioned 11-3-53 and 4-3-52, and as we've noted, they aren't in Dr. Shoemaker's list. Two genotypes in Dr. Shoemaker's list that are similar to the ones she mentioned are 11-3-52B and 4-3-53. I now do suspect she means those two.

[TheBrain]

I have the genetic pleasure of having a 14-5-52B haplotype. The other, 10-5, is "benign." Maybe I should be celebrating the benign one!

I’m sorry to hear you have one of the dreaded haplotypes. It would be nice if the benign haplotype canceled out the dreaded one. Have you noticed that you’re chemically sensitive?

I have two mold-susceptible haplotypes, none of the dreaded ones. Do you know the significance of having two versus having one? Do you recall Dr. Gupta saying anything about that? I imagine having two is worse, but I haven’t come across any statement to that effect.

[slacker]

I’m sorry to hear you have one of the dreaded haplotypes. It would be nice if the benign haplotype canceled out the dreaded one. Have you noticed that you’re chemically sensitive?

I have two mold-susceptible haplotypes, none of the dreaded ones. Do you know the significance of having two versus having one? Do you recall Dr. Gupta saying anything about that? I imagine having two is worse, but I haven’t come across any statement to that effect.

Luck of the draw. No obvious chemical sensitivities. I have never heard anyone discuss the risk level of 1 versus 2 haplotypes. It's always been simply "dreaded." It's possible that no one knows, with "clinical evidence" and no "published evidence." (I'm quoting the terms used by Dr Jill Hanrahan in her most recent web interview on CIRS.) Even so, presence of a non-benign haplotype connotes a propensity, not a certainty. If I remember, I'll ask my CIRS specialist/FMD when I speak with her this week.

[TheBrain]

Luck of the draw. No obvious chemical sensitivities. I have never heard anyone discuss the risk level of 1 versus 2 haplotypes. It's always been simply "dreaded." It's possible that no one knows, with "clinical evidence" and no "published evidence." (I'm quoting the terms used by Dr Jill Hanrahan in her most recent web interview on CIRS.) Even so, presence of a non-benign haplotype connotes a propensity, not a certainty. If I remember, I'll ask my CIRS specialist/FMD when I speak with her this week.

It's great you don't have any obvious chemical sensitivities. They would have to make life even more challenging. If you remember to ask your doctor about the risk level of 1 vs. 2 haplotypes and report back, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

[slacker]

If you remember to ask your doctor about the risk level of 1 vs. 2 haplotypes and report back, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

The real answer is that no one really knows enough to quantify risk of 1 mold susceptibility haplotype (or allele) versus 2. However, my CIRS specialist indicated that a person is more likely to have problems if they have one or two alleles that can turn on rather than just one. The good news in this (for me) is that it's possible the susceptibility allele(s) aren't turned on! Qualitatively, the risk of 2 alleles is more than 1, just like the ApoE4 allele.

[TheBrain]

Slacker, thank you for following up with your CIRS specialist. I just want to make sure I understand. In your second sentence, did you mean to say: "... if they have two alleles that can turn on rather than one." If not, I'm not sure what the "one or" part of the sentence is saying. Also, regarding your situation, are you saying you might have more than one susceptibility allele, despite what your HLA DR testing has shown? My understanding is that you have one multi-susceptible allele/haplotype. Maybe you're referring to potential alleles/haplotypes that have yet to be identified? Lastly, are you saying it is possible your susceptibility allele(s) aren't turned on, despite the fact that you have CIRS? If so, how would that work?

I don't understand what an allele is versus a haplotype. Maybe one of these days I'll figure it out.

[slacker]

Slacker, thank you for following up with your CIRS specialist. I just want to make sure I understand. In your second sentence, did you mean to say: "... if they have two alleles that can turn on rather than one." If not, I'm not sure what the "one or" part of the sentence is saying. Also, regarding your situation, are you saying you might have more than one susceptibility allele, despite what your HLA DR testing has shown? My understanding is that you have one multi-susceptible allele/haplotype. Maybe you're referring to potential alleles/haplotypes that have yet to be identified? Lastly, are you saying it is possible your susceptibility allele(s) aren't turned on, despite the fact that you have CIRS? If so, how would that work?

I don't understand what an allele is versus a haplotype. Maybe one of these days I'll figure it out.

Sometimes the english language fails. I used the word "allele" in my response since that's the term that my FMD/CIRS doctor used.

Here's a definition of haplotype from wikipedia: "A haplotype (haploid genotype) is a group of alleles in an organism that are inherited together from a single parent. However, there are other uses of this term. First, it is used to mean a collection of specific alleles (that is, specific DNA sequences) in a cluster of tightly linked genes on a chromosome that are likely to be inherited together—that is, they are likely to be conserved as a sequence that survives the descent of many generations of reproduction. A second use is to mean a set of linked single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) alleles that tend to always occur together (i.e., that are associated statistically)." Wikipedia definition of allele: "An allele is a variant form of a given gene." If I understand these definitions, ApoE is an allele and DLA DR/DQ is indeed a haplotype.

I will try to better explain my FMD's response, as I understand it, with an example. I have two haplotypes of HLA DR/DQ - 14-5-52B (aka "dreaded") and 10-5 (benign). Apparently, my dreaded haplotype can be active or inactive, turned on or off. My understanding is that genes/alleles/haplotypes can be turned off and on due to various environmental conditions (epigenetics). If my dreaded haplotype is "off", I am at lower risk of getting sick due to exposure to a biotoxin. If my dreaded haplotype is "on", I have a greater susceptibility (not guarantee) of getting sick from biotoxins. So 1 of 2 permutations (single dreaded off or on), 50% or half involve having my dreaded haplotype on. If I had two dreaded haplotypes, I could have both turned off, both turned on, or just one turned on. So 3 of the 4 permutations (75%) involve having at least one dreaded haplotype turned on, thus increasing my risk of biotoxin susceptibility and illness in comparison to just having one dreaded haplotype.

It is also possible, but less likely, to get sick with exposure to a biotoxin, and develop CIRS, if my dreaded haplotype is off, or if I didn't have an at risk haplotype.

More clear or more confusing? This may be the best that I can do...