Sleep!

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
anne from california
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Re: Sleep!

Postby anne from california » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:37 pm

CoachDD wrote:
5-HTP, PharmaGABA (recent find - excellent!), transdermal melatonin (need a script and is filled by a compounding pharmacy), Ashwagandha, and Magnesium (recently switched from Glycinate to L-Threonate). My FM (NP) doc swears by phosphatidylserine, but it didn't do much for me. Like Anna, I took trazadone (it is prescribed off label, by the way) - it did get me through some VERY difficult times, but I am not a fan of staying on any pharmaceutical long-term.



Coach DD, can you say why you use transdermal melatonin rather than oral? I'm curious if it would help me--I get brain jitters from just about any oral supplement that's supposed to help with sleep, including melatonin, mag threonate, progesterone. Even an eye mask gave me a bad trip!
55 years old, ApoE 3/3, eager to save brain and optimize health
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge!

Roamingseer
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Re: Sleep!

Postby Roamingseer » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:01 am

Here's my 2 cents.
1. Limit your water-food to 3-4hr before bed, so reduce bathroom visits & trouble falling back to sleep.
2. In a similar vein, don't take any laxatives (Mg) or stimulants (Black Tea) in the late afternoon/evening that can force more frequent bathroom visits in the early AM.
3. Wear blue blocking glasses at night and if possible rely on warm colored nightlights to see with.
4. Meditate, read or listen to relaxing music 30' before bed.
5. While sleeping, wear earplugs or such to dampen noise from thunder, hard rain, etc.
6. While sleeping, wear light blockers where you can't keep it 100% dark.
7. Expose your eyes-skin to 3-5 times/week bright morning exercise to help reset your circadian clock to improve sleep, see Dr. Satchin Panda's work on FoundMyFitness.com.
8. If you get insufficient morning light, use a 10,000+ LUX light nearby in the morning while working.
9. Go to bed at the same time and get up at the same time. Make it a priority!
10. Don't freak out if you don't sleep well, but determine why via an experiment. In #2 above I thought that Mg in late afternoon was suspect, so I eliminated it & saw my sleep increase the next night.

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Sara
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Re: Sleep!

Postby Sara » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:51 pm

So many good suggestions. Here is a link to the Primer which you can follow through to the section on sleep. I think you are following most of these recommendations already. One thing I thought to add that worked for me is bio identical hormone therapy which is... 1) discussed at length on this site, apoe4.info; and recommended by Dr. Bredesen and Dr. Ann Hathaway (who works closely with Dr. B) is a good resource for understanding the role of hormones with AD.
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FMCA / Bredesen Trained - Reversing Cognitive Decline For Coaches, 2018

buck3Maureen
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Re: Sleep!

Postby buck3Maureen » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:10 pm

I'm throwing this out because it is something I just discovered in the last week -- but it is unlikely to be helpful to those who have insomnia. For a very very long time I have had to get up two and sometimes three times a night to pee. I just attributed it to age and did not worry too much because I was able to get back to sleep within a few minutes. About a week ago I decided to change my multi vitamin. Again, for a very very long time I have been taking Live extension Mix capsules. They recommend taking 14 capsules a day. Even I was not that crazy. So since I eat a lot of good healthy whole food I cut it down to 7. Four in the AM three in the PM. I decided to try the multi vitamin that I heard about on this site called ONE. It was the only change I made and wallah!! I have been taking it in the AM and I am waking up only once at night and may even be able to get that down to zero. I am just wondering if overdoing it on the vitamins could have been stressing my kidneys.

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Re: Sleep!

Postby Searcher » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:14 am

buck3Maureen wrote:Four in the AM three in the PM. I decided to try the multi vitamin that I heard about on this site called ONE. It was the only change I made and wallah!! I have been taking it in the AM and I am waking up only once at night


b3M,

The fluids taken along with the vitamins in the pm might be sufficient to explain the waking up. Many people sleep better once they cut down fluid intake in the hours before bed.

This is not in support of supplements, just a possibly useful tip for those who have interrupted sleep.

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Re: Sleep!

Postby Verax » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:37 am

Like you I am a lifetime short sleeper. I also tried melatonin and sustained release melatonin at bedtime and it made no difference; I had abrupt cortical awakenings in the middle of the night and unable to get back to sleep to sleep the prescribed 7 to 8 hours even with CPAP and normal weight and lab values and all recommended sleep hygiene.

I am not sure that the short sleeping has actually had any adverse health effects, but it is socially unacceptable since I also generally fall asleep too early (extreme "lark" when others are "owls"). What has helped is realizing this syndrome is not my fault but a probable undiagnosed advance phase circadian sleep disorder (phase shorter than solar cycle, advancing each day). I can try to delay my circadian rhythm including sleep cycle by a combination of interventions. I now take the melatonin if I awaken early, even if I can't get back to sleep. Sleep doctors don't agree on this, as they think it might be dangerous driving and promote narcolepsy, but it is worth a try if only based on my anecdote. So instead of no blue or cyan light after sunset and melatonin at bedtime, use melatonin in the middle of the night and no blue light until sunrise. Also to delay the sleep cycle, use caffeine later. Caffeine and melatonin might protect against Alzheimer's, but I haven't seen a human study. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22959965

Circadian sleep disorders might be associated with variants in the PER clock gene. I have a rare variant in the PER3 gene that has been studied, aiding my amateur self-diagnosis. http://www.neuron.illinois.edu/files/U3_L4_CheckpointB_FamilialAdvancedSleepPhaseSyndrome.pdf (PDF).

Of course, phase of circadian rhythm (less than or more than the solar cycle) involves more physiology than just sleep, but is related. (Seasonal Affective Disorder and extreme jet lag are common if the cycle is not 12/12hrs). It is possible of course that your sleep disorder has nothing to do with circadian rhythm and if you are concerned about your sleep you should see a sleep physician.

Other circadian sleep disorders include delayed phase, and free-running cycle common to blind people, and there is much information online. Formal diagnosis is a bit difficult since the usual way to assess circadian rhythm is core temperature requiring a rectal probe, along with EEG polysomnography, and I haven't been able to duplicate that at home. Help!

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Re: Sleep!

Postby Sally Valleigh » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:30 am

I'm in my sixties and never used HRT. Consequently, I have been in full menopause for a decade. The only thing I have not yet tried is bio identical HRT. My concern is that "science" says that beginning HRT so late after menopause can be counter productive in the fight against Alzheimer's. Has anyone here started bio-identical HRT so long after menopause? I would appreciate any input about this because it's the only thing left to try for better sleep for me.

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Re: Sleep!

Postby Karina52 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:19 pm

I am 65, and started two months ago. I had not read that beginning so late after menopause could be counter productive. I went into menopause at 47. Of course, when I started the bio identical HRT (topical cream), I did not know I had 2 copies of APOE4. In fact, just found that out last night.

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Re: Sleep!

Postby slacker » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:49 pm

Sally Valleigh wrote:IMy concern is that "science" says that beginning HRT so late after menopause can be counter productive in the fight against Alzheimer's. Has anyone here started bio-identical HRT so long after menopause? I would appreciate any input about this because it's the only thing left to try for better sleep for me.


Karina52 wrote:I am 65, and started two months ago.


Welcome Sally and Karina!

bHRT is a complicated and controversial subject. If you haven't found Stavia's Primer, it's a wealth of information, with a section on female hormone replacement. In this section, Dr. Stavia mentions a study that looks at starting HRT at older ages. It doesn't mention any harm, but possible lack of benefit for cognition. Sally, what study indicates that HRT is counter productive for AD? There are functional medicine doctors that are willing to try bHRT in older women, especially if they are experiencing cognitive decline, to see if it will help.

As far as bHRT for sleep, it's often the progesterone component alone that does the trick.
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WillsMeme
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Re: Sleep!

Postby WillsMeme » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:03 pm

Julie is right - have you tried meditation? I often use the Insight Timer app. It has a veritable smorgasbord of types and times from which to choose. It helps me turn off the movie in my brain, and I'm usually asleep by the time the session ends. Blue-blocker reading glasses also help if I'm on my iPad or computer before bed. Good luck.
"Fortune favors the prepared mind." -- Louis Pasteur


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