B6 B surprise

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Whatnow
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B6 B surprise

Postby Whatnow » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:10 pm

Hi.
I started reading on this site after discovering that a LCHF diet sent my cholesterol counts through the roof. My total was about 300 while my LDL was about 200. I went for NMR lipoprofile expecting that this would show my concerned Dr that all was well. Instead, my LDL-P was 2470. Ackkk! :o Anyway, reading led me to wonder if perhaps I would turn out to be APOE4 positive. I am E3/E4 according to 23andme and Prometheas. In addition it seems I am het for the 1298 mthfr defect. Inspired by your stories here (as well as by Bredesen) I decided to ask for as many lab tests as I thought my skeptical Dr would agree to. Among other things I checked my B vitamin levels. I was kind of hoping that I would turn out to be low on B12 and that perhaps that would explain my lack of energy and motivation as well as occasional mental foggiest. Well, my B12 was fine (about 700 as I recall). However, the B6 was high. I think the upper limit on normal was about 47. Mine was 110. I was taking a multivitamin that included B6, but not a lot. Could this be the result of MTHFR related problems? Could the high B6 cause me problems (like fogginess or lack of motivation almost like depression not sad just not very productive at work)? If so, what can I do about it (other than stopping that multivitamin).
Thanks.

TLS
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Re: B6 B surprise

Postby TLS » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:52 am

Too much B6 is usually associated with neuorpathy, tingling in feet and hands, and loss of body control.

Here is a nice writeup and it also provides a list of foods with B6. If you are taking other vitamins, see how much b6 you are getting overall.

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vitam ... fessional/
apoe 3/4

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KellyS
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Re: B6 B surprise

Postby KellyS » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:03 pm

Hi, WhatNow,

There's a section on the Wiki page about methylation, with a small blurb about B6 if you'd like to read it.
https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Methylation#More_about_B6

Warmly,
Kelly
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Functional Medicine Health Coach - Candidate
apoe4.info intern

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SusanJ
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Re: B6 B surprise

Postby SusanJ » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:58 am

Whatnow wrote:Could this be the result of MTHFR related problems?


Methylation problems can certainly lead to brain effects, but a hetero 1298 gene doesn't typically throw too many things out of whack. Perhaps there are other genes variants contributing to the issues.

Just curious, is your homocysteine level normal? It's a good place to start when looking for methylation problems. If not, spend some time in the methylation wiki and see if anything rings a bell for you. Unfortunately it's not as easy as high B6 = this problem. Methylation has a lot of moving parts.

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TheBrain
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Re: B6 B surprise

Postby TheBrain » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:30 am

Whatnow, I don't know what measurement is used for your B6 result, but in The End of Alzheimer's, Dr. Bredesen recommends a vitamin B6 in the range of 60–100 mcg/L. (My understanding is that 1 ng/ml = 1 mcg/L, in case your result is in ng/ml.)
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!

Whatnow
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Re: B6 B surprise

Postby Whatnow » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:39 am

Hi,
Thanks for your replies. My homocysteine was 8.9 umol/L, so not too high by normal standards, but I think Bredesen wants it below 5 or 6 as I recall. I don’t know if that is high enough to suspect methylation problems. I do have some peculiar tingling in my feet when I bump them together lightly. Also, podiatrist said I have a little bit of sensation loss in my feet. Of course, this could be from diabetes, although I have never had an A1c reading above 6.0. Of course, what it was before they started testing for it I have no way of knowing. Anyway, since I’ve stopped taking the b complex and the non-methylated b12 I think I feel a little better. It could be my imagination, though.
I saw that Bredesen was ok with b6 as high as 100, but I was also wondering about something I read that said that unmethylated b vitamins could cause an effective b vitamin deficiency by competing for the same target as methylated vitamins and blocking their action.

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SusanJ
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Re: B6 B surprise

Postby SusanJ » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:25 pm

Whatnow, it's probably folic acid that you specifically read about. Folic acid competes for the same receptors as "active" folates (e.g. methylfolate). With MTHFR variants, it's common advice to get folic acid out of your diet (most usually found in convenience foods and fortified grain products).

Your homocysteine is high and suggests other problems might be the problems in your methylation cycle. Do spend some time with the graphic in the wiki and read a bit to see if anything else rings a bell.

And unless your A1c readings are under 5.6, you are considered pre-diabetic. Would be a good place to focus for now, bringing those numbers down as best you can.

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Re: B6 B surprise

Postby Tincup » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:49 pm

On your cholesterol, you may want to watch this presentation by Dave Feldman He's an E3/4 engineer and a huge hyperresponder. He's spent much time and $$ trying to figure out this issue. His site is here.
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Re: B6 B surprise

Postby gmpicket » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:35 pm

Not sure if this applies here. I've tried taking the P5P (activated form of B6) - 50mg - and have found that taking it daily, after just a few days, I have trouble sleeping. I've been taking it once a week instead, and that seems to be ok. (Haven't had any testing.)

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Re: B6 B surprise

Postby Whatnow » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:00 pm

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I will look in to them.


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