PEMT RS7946(T,T) Fast Results After Phosphatidylcholine Supplemention

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
User avatar
SusanJ
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 2811
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:33 am
Location: Central Florida

Re: PEMT RS7946(T,T) Fast Results After Phosphatidylcholine Supplemention

Postby SusanJ » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:08 am

Roaming, I've heard from some folks that duck eggs don't cause the same problem as chicken eggs. Something to consider. They are way more expensive, but larger, so you use fewer. I can get them sometimes at the local farmers market. But, I seem to do okay with pastured chicken eggs, so I stick with them a couple times per week.

Roamingseer
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:15 pm

Re: PEMT RS7946(T,T) Fast Results After Phosphatidylcholine Supplemention

Postby Roamingseer » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:02 pm

SusanJ, here is something worth looking at, or read the transcripts- https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-to ... ao-levels/

circular
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 5099
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am

Re: PEMT RS7946(T,T) Fast Results After Phosphatidylcholine Supplemention

Postby circular » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:07 pm

Thanks Roaming and Susan for highlighting the choline issues again. I'm homozygous on both FADS1 and PEMT. I don't think I ever put the two together in my mind! :shock:

I've been taking Alpha GPC choline for a long time, 300 mg. I've never been aware of it affecting my memory one way or another, but I suppose it could be helping my overall improvement. I was taking it in the morning for years. A couple nights ago I switched it to my bedtime pills. I had no idea it might influence REM sleep when I noticed after each of the first two nights that I woke up more refreshed, clearer, more lightness of being. I'm wondering if taking before bed is helping my REM sleep. It's too early to tell. I probably just jinxed the phenomenon by mentioning it. Some places online say not to take it at night, but for now I'm going to keep it up and see.

I also take Nordic Naturals Omega-3 phospholipids. I'm only taking 2 a day, which is 500 mg omega 3 and 350 mg phospholipids (300 phosphatidylcholine).

Maybe I should add some lecithin phosphatidylcholine. Or maybe I'm already taking enough? I wonder how I would know?

I eat two eggs daily but no organ meats, which I keep trying but just can't stomach.

Interestingly, the cholinergic pathway, when functioning properly, is also antiinflammatory via the vagus nerve, so this deficiency may be contributing to my inflammatory phenotype.

I wonder what percentage of people are homozygous on both.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

Orangeblossom
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 802
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:11 am

Re: PEMT RS7946(T,T) Fast Results After Phosphatidylcholine Supplemention

Postby Orangeblossom » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:58 pm

I tried taking some Choline tablets but gave me a headache and buzzy feeling similar to when I tried methyl folate so have stopped it now.

Roamingseer
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:15 pm

Re: PEMT RS7946(T,T) Fast Results After Phosphatidylcholine Supplemention

Postby Roamingseer » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:10 am

circular wrote:Thanks Roaming and Susan for highlighting the choline issues again. I'm homozygous on both Interestingly, the cholinergic pathway, when functioning properly, is also antiinflammatory via the vagus nerve, so this deficiency may be contributing to my inflammatory phenotype.

I wonder what percentage of people are homozygous on both.


@Circular- That's interesting what you said. My daughter has LPR, which relates to an over stimulated vagus nerve. She has had a lot of trouble with this over the years and is considering a Stretta procedure:
a minimally invasive endoscopic procedure for the treatment of gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) that delivers radiofrequency energy in the form of electromagnetic waves through electrodes at the end of a catheter to the lower esophageal sphincter (LES) and the gastric cardia - the region of the stomach just below the LES. The energy heats the tissue, ultimately causing it to swell and stiffen; the way this works was not understood as of 2015, but it was thought that perhaps the heat causes local inflammation, collagen deposition and muscular thickening of the LES and that it may disrupt the nerves there.


LPR is quite a terrible experience & would love if there was something that could be a reasonable workaround to surgery. Presently, she does tRF and drinks lots of alkaline water and a bland diet that have reduced the severity of the symptoms. BTW- She has the same FADS1 and PEMT SNPs.

User avatar
SusanJ
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 2811
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:33 am
Location: Central Florida

Re: PEMT RS7946(T,T) Fast Results After Phosphatidylcholine Supplemention

Postby SusanJ » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:46 pm

One thing about choline. The pathways that convert choline to TMG, phosphatidylcholine and alpha-GPC can also have problems. That's why choline doesn't help me much personally - too many intermediate choline conversion problems. So I use TMG and phosphatidylcholine to get past those roadblocks.

Orange you might have clogs in some other pathway so most of your choline gets funneled into making SAMe, giving you symptoms like too much methylfolate (which also can result in too much SAMe).

Here's some previous posts I made on this topic.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2965&p=35519&hilit=rs9001#p35519
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2302&p=26781&hilit=CHAT+choline#p26781

circular
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 5099
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am

Re: PEMT RS7946(T,T) Fast Results After Phosphatidylcholine Supplemention

Postby circular » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:55 pm

I've been thinking about taking one alpha-GPC, one citicholine, some SAM-e and some phosphatidylcholine. Still wrapping my brain around it. Will explore TMG too. Thinking maybe some of everything will hit all the notes without getting stuck in any one groove, since I can't see inside my body. Maybe oversimplified but all I can manage for now.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

User avatar
SusanJ
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 2811
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:33 am
Location: Central Florida

Re: PEMT RS7946(T,T) Fast Results After Phosphatidylcholine Supplemention

Postby SusanJ » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:00 pm

Circ, maybe rotate them a bit? I know you're playing around with effects on sleep, so choosing forms that help with that probably needs to be your priority.

I'm still waiting for the tricorder...

circular
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 5099
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am

Re: PEMT RS7946(T,T) Fast Results After Phosphatidylcholine Supplemention

Postby circular » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:00 pm

SusanJ wrote:Circ, maybe rotate them a bit?

Are you asking me to be reasonable :lol:

It does seem that my mind is clearer when I take Alpha GPC before bed rather than in the morning, but I won't bet my life on the connection, because maybe it's placebo. The thing is it was the last thing I was thinking when I took it at night. I just woke up the next morning and went, "Wow, what happened?"

So I got an email this afternoon that Rhonda Patrick's new version of her genetic report is out. I downloaded it to get the additional genes. It seems I have another problem on my choline pathways, so the triple header is (emphases added):

PEMT rs7946(T;T)
Phosphatidylethanolamine­-N-­methyltransferase (PEMT) catalyzes the synthesis of phosphatidylcholine and, thus, choline in the liver. Having one or more T nucleotides at rs7946 is associated with having lower phosphatidylcholine production in the liver with a second T increasing the effect. Phosphatidylcholine is a key component in all cell membranes and plays a very important role in the structure of the cell, which affects all biological functions. It is also a precursor for the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which has been shown to play a role in promoting REM sleep.................

Last night I found this somewhat old mouse study showing 'Choline Deficiency–Induced Liver Damage Is Reversible in Pemt−/− Mice'.

FADS1 rs174548(G;G)
This polymorphism in the fatty acid desaturase FADS1 gene affects phosphatidylcholine levels. The genotype rs174548(G;G) is associated with having lower phosphatidylcholine levels than either the intermediate (C;G) or the high (C;C) genotypes. Phosphatidylcholine is a key component in all cell membranes and plays a very important role in the structure of the cell, which affects all biological functions. It is also a precursor for the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which has been shown to play a role in promoting REM sleep..................

MTRR rs1801394(G;G)
.......................This polymorphism has been shown to influence the way choline is partitioned between the Cdp-choline pathway and betaine synthesis. At recommended adequate intake (AI) levels of choline, women with this variant shuttled more choline towards phosphatidylcholine synthesis at the expense of betaine [TMG] synthesis. However, at levels above the AI, normal partitioning was restored, suggesting that women with this polymorphism may benefit from dietary choline intake above the current AI levels...................

I guess if my phosphatidylcholine synthesis is wonky, but my MTRR may be shuttling too much choline to phosphatidylcholine synthesis, my choline could be at a logjam somewhere in there. Meanwhile I may not have enough betaine, and if I'm interpreting the diagram on this page right, if my betaine is deficient, my serine (phosphatidylserine???) may also be deficient. I've seen that is yet another supplement.

Of course I don't want to take everything under the sun. Maybe back loops and compensatory mechanisms are coming into play???

It's hard for me to see how these all interrelate with one another. This whole topic is rabbit holes within rabbit holes. It seems I need a month at the top of a mountain to digest it...

I wish I liked more choline rich foods so I could just eat a bunch of them.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

mcpemberton2000
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:58 am

Re: PEMT RS7946(T,T) Fast Results After Phosphatidylcholine Supplemention

Postby mcpemberton2000 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:50 am

Fantastic info. I just looked at my report and I'm rs7946 (C;T) which I think has the same issue based on my limited reading. I'm thinking of taking choline as a supplement but don't want to jump the gun. Any other things I should look at before deciding? Thanks in advance for any insight!


Return to “Our Stories”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: sel and 8 guests