Help! I'm going under

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
Whatnow
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Re: Help! I'm going under

Post by Whatnow »

If you are truly on a ketogenic diet (and I suspect you are not since you seem to be eating plenty of carbs and also since you have not complained about Keto flu or exercise intolerance) Phinney recommends an extra 2 g of sodium (about one teaspoon of salt) unless you are on a low salt diet for hypertension. Perhaps you should talk to a doctor about electrolytes? At first I thought this might explain your weight loss, but if you’re eating a lot of carbs you are probably not in what Phinney would call nutritional ketosis. Although tolerance to carbs varies wildly, especially with plenty of exercise. My tolerance is quite low, yours might be a lot higher than mine.
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slacker
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Re: Help! I'm going under

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Orangeblossom wrote:I hesitate to post as I'm not in the same boat here. BMI is 27 and I'm also 5 ft 3.
Dear Orange;

At the risk of telling you something you already know, hip to waist ratio is considered a more accurate assessment of overweight than BMI. Muscular weight lifters will appear "obese" with BMI, and small boned people may calculate as underweight. People who have more hip weight (pear shaped) are carrying more subcutaneous fat, whilst "apple shaped" people have more visceral fat in their trunk area. The visceral fat is considered less healthy, especially for metabolic issues.

Here's a nice summary from Wikipaedia (British spelling! :lol: ) on hip to waist ratios.
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Re: Help! I'm going under

Post by Orangeblossom »

slacker wrote:
Orangeblossom wrote:I hesitate to post as I'm not in the same boat here. BMI is 27 and I'm also 5 ft 3.
Dear Orange;

At the risk of telling you something you already know, hip to waist ratio is considered a more accurate assessment of overweight than BMI. Muscular weight lifters will appear "obese" with BMI, and small boned people may calculate as underweight. People who have more hip weight (pear shaped) are carrying more subcutaneous fat, whilst "apple shaped" people have more visceral fat in their trunk area. The visceral fat is considered less healthy, especially for metabolic issues.

Here's a nice summary from Wikipaedia (British spelling! :lol: ) on hip to waist ratios.
Ok my waist to hip ratio seems to be OK. Thanks ;)
GemmaJ
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Re: Help! I'm going under

Post by GemmaJ »

Hey Lindy,

I can't believe I've come so late to your thread as you are talking about exactly what I have been going through for the last 14 months since I found out my 4/4 status. I'm really strict with my diet and often feel overwhelmed by my lack of knowledge when I read the forums and then become even more worried and even stricter - a vicious circle. But this thread has reassured me that everyone 'falls off the wagon' as it were and maybe it's not so necessary to adhere so so tightly to a ketogenic Bredesen/Gundry diet.

To make you feel slightly better - I am 5 foot 5 inches, currently weigh 47kg (I got up to nearly 50kg 9 months ago but it goes up and down) and so my BMI is only 17.2 which is really not good. I'm actually so fed up of worrying about my weight now! I'd love to just not think about it at all but recently I have been wondering what I should prioritise, BMI or brain-friendly diet and exercise. I swapped cardio exercise for weights last Summer and that helped but I only manage to get to the gym twice or at most 3 times a week just as life is so busy.

I have lived through a very stressful five or so years and I feel that it is probably this that affects my weight the most. As an example, I am about to move back home to the UK and yesterday I had an awful day trying to deal with the government bureaucracy where I am currently (I don't want to offend anyone so won't name country but they are a nightmare to deal with!!) and despite eating really well, I had lost half a kilo overnight! And this really was small fry compared to some of the ------- I've dealt with lately!!

I have found this thread so helpful and like you, will now ease up and allow myself more carbs. We all read so much and everything becomes so confusing and contradictory doesn't it? Stavia is right when she says we all have to find what works for us, our own path as it were and maybe stop comparing ourselves to others who we think must be doing it 'right' whilst we get it wrong somehow. I wish you well on your journey Lindy - remember you're not alone and I hope you find your path soon. I'll keep working on mine too! Oh - and I think we should probably both stop feeling so scared.

Good Luck!
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Re: Help! I'm going under

Post by Lindy »

Wow, I’ve missed so much posting in the last week – sorry, everyone! Thanks so much for the good advice. Attempting to catch up:
McGido wrote:
Lindy wrote: How are your fingers feeling?
I don't really notice at all. There are 7 different depths you can set the lancet puncture to and I have it on the 3rd lowest setting and that seems to be just fine and allow me to draw enough blood for the test strips.
. . .Even when I was using it multiple times a day my finger wasn't really bothered. I just pricked my left pointer finger and did it on the side of the finger closer to the nail instead of the top middle of the finger. If you use it a lot daily, you might get some sensitivity but if you are just using it to check your glucose after you eat a suspect meal then you shouldn't really notice anything.
Thanks for the helpful hints, McGido. It helps me envision what I would do.
circular wrote:You can switch between different fingers too. I use the really thin 33 gauge needles. It’s not like the old days. I was nervous before doing it to. Bad memories from standing in line at elementary school getting something much worse, sort of shovel shaped, jabbed into my finger. It’s one of those things where you fear it’ll be like falling off a cliff, but it ends up like stepping off a curb.
I love that analogy, circular! I’m not always coordinated enough to step off a curb without injuring something. Still, definitely better than cliff jumping.
slacker wrote:Yes, type 1 diabetics test their glucose at least 4 times a day. Cleaning the skin with alcohol before testing helps protect against infection. I've worked with diabetics for 20 years and can't remember one infection or injury from sampling with finger capillary blood. ... Lindy, if the process makes you nervous, put it aside for now. Think about it again in 3 months. Contemplate the possible benefits of ketone and glucose testing then. You don't have to implement everything at the same time.
Slacker, I appreciate your experience on this issue - 20 years of careful cleaning without infection is very reassuring. And the idea of setting aside an issue and dealing with it later makes a kind of sense now that I didn't grasp when I started this thread. If there’s one thing this thread has taught me, it is that I need to cultivate some patience and slow down. Stop and smell the roses, so to speak.
APOE-ε4/ε4 on the voyage of discovery.
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Re: Help! I'm going under

Post by Lindy »

Orangeblossom wrote:I hesitate to post as I'm not in the same boat here. . . . My bloods seem Ok on what I'm doing, I exercise a lot and usually intermittent fast (16:8 usually)
Hi Orangeblossom, I’m guessing since your BMI is higher than mine you have more leeway to fast. I remember when I had a similar BMI I could go a while between meals (though I knew nothing about intermittent fasting back then). One problem I had (that has been discussed above on this thread) was getting irrationally angry if I was hungry (but maybe not attributing the anger to hunger because I didn't recognize it as a cause).
Orangeblossom wrote:But- I do eat plenty of full fat dairy, cheese, etc and don't really measure anything too much, stick to low GI / GL carbs, have fish and fish oils, basically follow a med style low carb diet https://thebloodsugardiet.com/the-low-carb-plan/ but eat pretty well on it. . . . I have packs of nuts, and hard boiled eggs which I snack on and almond butter with very dark chocolate, all high calorie. Humous and carrot sticks, as well. Always have lots of healthy veggies and fruits, olive oil and avocado oil / avocados.
I'm also pretty lax at weekends having porridge and the like and not intermittent fasting on those days. But I'm not sure if any of this is a good plan to suggest - may help put on a bit of weight through. It's a tricky balance we have with these things.
Thanks for these suggestions, Orangeblossom. I have not done the full fat dairy because I thought I read somewhere that it’s not good for APOE4s – but I could have that all wrong, as I’ve been trying to stuff my brain with information at the same time I’m stuffing my tummy. Tricky balance indeed when everything is so complex.

I’m actually eating a lot of the foods you mention, and it strikes me now that maybe I just need to work on gradually increasing the portions over time until I hit the “sweet spot” where I can keep it going without too much effort. I spent a little over a year losing 35 pounds and reprogramming my stomach/brain’s idea of how much I should be eating until my digestive capacity shrank to fit. I guess it makes sense that if I want to stop the downward trajectory and turn around and gain some back, I need to reverse the program. Not drastically – just enough to get back to my ideal weight and stay there, with baby steps, a few more calories a day.
Orangeblossom wrote:I also got some ideas from Max Lowery's book Max is a personal trainer and does fasted exercise along with having more low GI carbs after his workout some days a week, he has some good ideas about building up lean mass in there too. I like his approach, it's easy to follow and nice to have a range of foods to enjoy. He mentions, after exercise it can be Ok to have some more carbs as it doesn't spike your blood sugar as much, instead it replenishes your glycogen stores, instead. Here is his website https://2mealday.com So his approach is all about balance and working with the exercise that you are doing. I kind of combine these two approaches really.
Wow, this is a great resource. I like the idea of eating more carbs after workouts. My husband will also be interested in this. He needs to lose about 40 pounds and although he skips breakfast (that’s at least a start on two meals a day), he eats lunch and dinner and pretty much constantly snacks into the evening. Having a relatively easy to follow fasting plan like this might help him turn around his own trajectory. Thanks!
Orangeblossom wrote:But I do really love my food and maybe eat more than I should :?
Maybe, but it sounds like you are doing really healthy things. I love food too, and giving up some of it altogether has been hard. I think I had a codependent relationship with food. In order to get to a healthier state I had to learn how to love my food while savoring it in smaller portions - setting boundaries, if you will. I learned to eat more slowly and consciously, and to box up and take home half of whatever was served me in restaurants because at least in my country, portion sizes are geared towards people much larger than me.
Cron-o-meter helped me lose that weight slowly and safely while still eating what I loved, just in smaller portions. Tracking my nutrition reassured me that I was getting the nutrients I needed even from smaller portions, and taught me to be judicious about supplements. I’m learning not to obsess over Cron-o-meter, which I was doing with macronutrient formulas and the like (hence the original post), but I have to give it credit for changing my whole orientation from "living to eat" to “eating to live.”

One of the amazing results of landing at BMI 20 was that I was light enough to run, really run, after decades of getting winded and sore after jogging short distances. I felt like a gazelle. Now that I can stop obsessing about my weight loss I can start enjoying gifts like this.

Thanks for the time and thought you put into your post. It means a lot to me!
APOE-ε4/ε4 on the voyage of discovery.
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Re: Help! I'm going under

Post by Lindy »

GemmaJ wrote:Hey Lindy,

I can't believe I've come so late to your thread as you are talking about exactly what I have been going through for the last 14 months since I found out my 4/4 status. I'm really strict with my diet and often feel overwhelmed by my lack of knowledge when I read the forums and then become even more worried and even stricter - a vicious circle. But this thread has reassured me that everyone 'falls off the wagon' as it were and maybe it's not so necessary to adhere so so tightly to a ketogenic Bredesen/Gundry diet.
]

Good, Gemma - we could all use a little reassurance! Your second sentence describes me to a "T" as well.
GemmaJ wrote:To make you feel slightly better - I am 5 foot 5 inches, currently weigh 47kg (I got up to nearly 50kg 9 months ago but it goes up and down) and so my BMI is only 17.2 which is really not good. I'm actually so fed up of worrying about my weight now! I'd love to just not think about it at all but recently I have been wondering what I should prioritise, BMI or brain-friendly diet and exercise. I swapped cardio exercise for weights last Summer and that helped but I only manage to get to the gym twice or at most 3 times a week just as life is so busy.

I have lived through a very stressful five or so years and I feel that it is probably this that affects my weight the most. As an example, I am about to move back home to the UK and yesterday I had an awful day trying to deal with the government bureaucracy where I am currently (I don't want to offend anyone so won't name country but they are a nightmare to deal with!!) and despite eating really well, I had lost half a kilo overnight! And this really was small fry compared to some of the ------- I've dealt with lately!!
That sounds awful, Gemma! I'm sorry to hear about your run-ins with the nightmare government and I hope it isn't my country. Dealing with bureaucrats is never fun.
I am sure stress has been causing at least some of my weight loss and probably yours. Stress is not our friend! Unfortunately it is everywhere around us in this modern world. I've started turning off the news to get some peace.

As a side note, I just hosted four lovely young ladies from the UK (friends of my now-daughter-in-law, bridesmaids for the wedding) for more than a week. From what I've heard, the UK seems like such a civilized, friendly, and peaceful place. Though of course, the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence.
GemmaJ wrote:I have found this thread so helpful and like you, will now ease up and allow myself more carbs. We all read so much and everything becomes so confusing and contradictory doesn't it? Stavia is right when she says we all have to find what works for us, our own path as it were and maybe stop comparing ourselves to others who we think must be doing it 'right' whilst we get it wrong somehow.
Yes! We need to live our lives and just do the best we can for our health with what we know. Relaxing and being mindful of how we're feeling and letting go of stress is a prerequisite to being able to sense what works for us.
GemmaJ wrote: I wish you well on your journey Lindy - remember you're not alone and I hope you find your path soon. I'll keep working on mine too! Oh - and I think we should probably both stop feeling so scared.
Thank you so much for your encouraging words, GemmaJ. After all, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself! (Although we shouldn't tear our hair out fearing fear, either. Stavia would definitely disapprove. ;) )
GemmaJ wrote: Good Luck!
And good luck to you, my fellow traveler on this very interesting path!
APOE-ε4/ε4 on the voyage of discovery.
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Re: Help! I'm going under

Post by Searcher »

The one thing missing, or feeble, in most protocols for preventing Alzheimer's, is emotional well-being. Yet, according to the panel of experts who authored the Lancet article on dementia in 2017, the highest increase in risk for dementia comes from depression. They may or may not be completely accurate, but emotional well-being is probably worth considerable attention.

Alzheimer's can be an unpleasant condition for the sufferer and loved ones. However, efforts to prevent Alzheimer's can be carried to an extreme where they rob one of a full and meaningful life in the present. It's as if Alzheimer's starts ruining one's life years (or decades) before it occurs. So much remains to be discovered about the intricate mechanisms and interactions in the human body that even those who get all the markers right are not guaranteed to be spared.

Perhaps the most important marker is how well one can do what really matters to one. If fear of Alzheimer's prompts a more full and meaningful life, then it can be a blessing. And most of us could do with a larger helping of blessings.

We don't want to go under before we actually go under.
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Re: Help! I'm going under

Post by GemmaJ »

I'm sorry to hear about your run-ins with the nightmare government and I hope it isn't my country.
HI Lindy - No no no. I'm in the EU don't worry!
the UK seems like such a civilized, friendly, and peaceful place.
Haha - it has its moments but I've lived away from home for 8 years and British people are definitely much more polite than here. At times we can be TOO polite and could do with being a bit more direct but on the whole, we're ok! One of the things I love about this site is that it brings us all together.

I know there's only 2% of the British population with my 4/4 status - does anyone know if this is also true on a world scale?

I've begun to see 4/4 as 'special' rather than scary. I've decided that we're the originals - the real thing if you like! Optimism works wonders for the stress levels!
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Re: Help! I'm going under

Post by CarrieS »

GemmaJ wrote:
I've begun to see 4/4 as 'special' rather than scary. I've decided that we're the originals - the real thing if you like! Optimism works wonders for the stress levels!
I too have started to look at 4/4 as being more of an original and that the modern way of life isn't always compatible with me. I've always been kind of "old school" so it seems to fit. I also agree that optimism really does work wonders and practice lots of gratitude every day. :)
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