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Updated NMR LipoProfile results

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MarcR
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Re: Updated NMR LipoProfile results

Postby MarcR » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:07 pm

Janpeter wrote:Even with 20 servings of Veg and 200 grams of protein, there is no way to get to my 1900 daily calorie goal at 5' 11". I weigh 165 pounds and have 9% body fat. So I am left with the choice of adding starch or fat to increase calories. As the typical combo veg and protein yields about 600-800 calories I add the rest ( right now ) with about a cup of EVOO. So my macro ratio is: 60% fat, the vast majority from EVOO, Avocado and Flax seeds / 25% Complex carbs solely from Veg / 15% protein mostly Fish, some lean grass fed meat, and some eggs.


Janpeter, thanks for sharing these interesting details. I'm also 5'11" and at 170 pounds am close to your weight. Your strategy of using vegetables as the bulk of your diet, fish for protein and omega 3 PUFA, and EVOO/MUFA for the bulk of calories seems to me to be a radically simple implementation of a VLCKD with low SFA. (You didn't mention nutritional ketosis as a goal, but I would be surprised if my morning ketones would be below 0.5 on the diet you described.)

What were the factors that drove you to adopt this strategy? Do you have any lipid test results that you would care to share? If your results are similar to Julie's, we would have a nice n=2 proven strategy for managing lipids on a VLCKD by emphasizing MUFA and minimizing SFA.

On a related note, I am interested in your 1,900 calorie daily objective. I consume 2,500-3,500 calories daily, depending on activity level, and I have been dropping pounds. When I enter my details into a basal metabolic rate calorie calculator, it says I need 2,604 calories to support my "moderately active" lifestyle. Are you weight-stable on 1,900 calories? I think I would feel hungry and lose a lot of weight if I ate so little.

I will note that a cup of EVOO contains about 1,900 calories all by itself - with 600-800 calories of vegetables and fish and a cup of EVOO, you would actually be consuming 2,500-2,700 calories daily. Perhaps your "about a cup" is closer to 2/3 of a cup?

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Re: Updated NMR LipoProfile results

Postby Ski » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:56 pm

A cup of EVOO a day??? Yowzers that seems excessive Janpeter. I'd be curious how much EVOO others are consuming. I do about 1 tablespoon per day now.


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Julie G
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Re: Updated NMR LipoProfile results

Postby Julie G » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:24 pm

About 4 TBS...and it's sometimes hard to reach my goal. I could never do a shot like Russ & G- bleh :?

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Re: Updated NMR LipoProfile results

Postby Janpeter » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:13 pm

Oops, I guess my estimated use of EVOO was a little high and my assumed calorie intake a little low :oops: Upon more exacting measurements and more precise calorie counting I come up with about a little over 1/2 of a cup and a daily calorie intake of about 2400-2600. I never used a measuring cup but instead just poured liberally from the bottle. When you actually pour it into a cup it clearly was more than I typically used each day. I don't take EVOO straight but instead pour it on my veggies or mix it with chopped tomatoes lots of garlic etc. I also eat a lot of avocados and do 2 tablespoons of ground flaxseeds everyday as well. So that too is adding some more calories. My weight has been very stable during this time. In addition I'm taking 4 teaspoons of Amla powder. All this is in addition to my other supplementation regimen ( posted in my Intro).
I do this with almost 100% compliance...often to a the great irritation of those living around me :twisted: ;) I also find this new regimen fairly easy to adhere to...fat satiates !!

I have been doing this regimen since late May when I got my horrible NMR (posted under my Intro). Before that test I was doing LC but with much higher amounts of SFA from meats, butter, and MCTs from coconut oil. I was also doing resistant starch in the form of potato starch for its supposed micro biome benefits. I suspect that it had a strange effect on my lipid profile instead, due to for me very high TGs.

Although I did post my questioning of NMR and lipid testing in general as being this golden benchmark of all biomarkers, I am not ignoring them. In fact I took them so seriously that I got an EBT done to give me a CAC score.

Thanks Merouleau for your insightful comments. I realize now that I should test again to see if my numbers improve and share what I learn with this forum. I guess that I picked this regimen from all the great information that I picked up in this forum. I know Julie brought up the Spanish Ketogenic study and there were other posts as well mentioning a high MUFA / low SFA alternative to the LF mantra. So to make it N=2 I ordered an NMR today.

My question is when to take it. I've been on this for 5 weeks now. Do you all think that is long enough to change values ?
Last edited by Janpeter on Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Julie G
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Re: Updated NMR LipoProfile results

Postby Julie G » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:22 pm

You may want to wait a few more weeks...even though E4s (of all of the APOE genotypes) demonstrate the most rapid response to changes in lipids. I am VERY eager to see your results.

Jan Peter, I just saw your comment about your decent CAC score despite a higher LDL-P. Congrats. To what do you attribute your success there? Have you kept glucose/inflammation markers low? If so, what indicators were you using for inflammation. It translated nicely :D

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Re: Updated NMR LipoProfile results

Postby Janpeter » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:57 pm

Hey Julie, I had a CRP as part of a cardio panel done together with the NMR.
Here is crux of results again taken on 05/12/14:
The Bad :cry:
LDL-P 3071
Small LDL-P 1510
TC 248 usually around 205
LDL-C 172 never had it this high
HDL-C 40 very low for me usually in the high 50's low 60's
TG- 182 crazy high for me usually 40-60
HDL-P 25.6
LDL size 21.2

The good :)
Hgb A1c 4.5
CRP cardiac (sensitive) 0.44 ( low is 1<)

As this little shop of horrors shows, my lipids on this day are a mess. I am even questioning the test itself as my standard lipid panels have never been this off. So taking another test is a good idea. I'm using a different Lab this time and I'll wait a couple of weeks as you suggest.
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Re: Updated NMR LipoProfile results

Postby Stavia » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:06 am

Janpeter, your HbA1c is exceptional. And we know apoe4 is very sensitive to hyperglycaemia. :)

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Re: Updated NMR LipoProfile results

Postby Julie G » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:50 am

Wow, Jan Peter- you are a prime example of the importance of keeping glucose and inflammation low given your recent CAC score- nice :D have you ever checked your homocysteine level?

I see these lipids are quite out of character for you. I'm guessing you were eating low carb- despite your TGs. Your result really makes me wonder about Sandra's theory; that E4s, using RS, may reabsorb the resulting beta-hydroxybutyrate from the gut driving lipid numbers up :idea:

I'm really looking forward to your next test!

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Re: Updated NMR LipoProfile results

Postby Russ » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:46 am

Janpeter, Really looking forward to hearing more. I've largely been on the same path with similar experience. One thing I have certainly missed though is putting emphasis on glucose. I had worked some carbs back into diet along with the supplemented RS, and that seems to be problematic for me. Now seeing how quickly I can drive glucose down, but otherwise, dietary interventions I have chosen so far are similar to yours.
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Re: Updated NMR LipoProfile results

Postby SpunkyPup » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:47 am

“If you eat meat and animal products they should be an accompaniment to a plant-heavy diet rather than the primary portion. The amount of dietary fat seems to be far less important in this context “

I agree with the above statement altho getting all ones 8 essential amino acids @ 15% protein may be challenging going a bit higher with other sources for other factors might be helpful.
If ones does not spike insulin too often then one is even better off.

“I haven't had a HbA1c test in quite some time. In the past it's hovered around 5% (estimated average glucose 97 “
It is creeping up there so I would watch it as the lower the better but not too low, around 80 I would say is ideal. This is the problem of vegan/vegetarian diets amongst other co-factors.
“My fasting glucose on the moderate fat vegan diet was 80-85 mg/dl, and 70-75 mg/dl on the low-fat vegan diet. “
Good going but do check for spiking. I think your leanness and hi muscle mass is making this quite good.
Too low fat/cholestrol may have hormonal affects so I would do a panel of complete tests as a baseline including thyroid. You may need one day/wk slightly higher gylcemic index carbs to turn up thyroid/hormonal function and moderate fat may be your sweet spot. I'm sure you can find the references to what I'm referring to as off hand it would take me awhile and I just came back from a mini trip from Cap Cod MA.


"A cup of EVOO a day??? "

so @ 15% sat fat well now that is quite something even if it is an approx close to the amount consumed now look at your results again.

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