Inconsistent Keto-Mojo Results-Discouraged!

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
User avatar
Julie G
Mod
Mod
Posts: 7810
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:36 pm

Re: Inconsistent Keto-Mojo Results-Discouraged!

Postby Julie G » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:15 am

FWIW, Precision Xtra simply doesn't give a reading when the supply isn't adequate. To do so, seems to be inviting chaos. Just saying...

Tincup
Mod
Mod
Posts: 2132
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Inconsistent Keto-Mojo Results-Discouraged!

Postby Tincup » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:21 am

]
circular wrote:Here's a video at the K-M website on getting a good sample that I don't remember seeing, so I guess I skipped that.


I tend to do the shake the hand vigorously method most times. I'm always doing the cold thermogenesis thing, so hands are usually cold, at least in winter in Colorado.

circular wrote:I wonder, does it tend to err on the underreporting side with an inadequate but 'successful' sample, or would readings be all over the map when there's not enough blood.


Good question. On glucose meters, a lot time it is high. Don't know on KM ketones. I've taken a lot more glucose than ketone readings in the last 12 years.

Also, there is a qualitative correlation between glucose and ketones. Lower glucose = higher ketones. This is not perfect by any means.

For me, if I had glucose of 120 and ketones of 7 or 60 glucose and 0 ketones, I'd know there was a problem. That being said, BHB - serum ketones are a "storage form." Hence you will typically see an increase the longer you fast (in days not hours), till you reach more of a steady state. Also, some are being used, so that is a factor. Someplace here I posted a Ketonix (breath acetone meter) chart showing the relationship between breath acetone and serum BHB for one person. - Found it!

I tend to look at readings like this:

none = 0.0 - 0.4 mmol/L
low = 0.5- 2.0 mmol/L
moderate = 2.1- 4.0 mmol/L
high = 4.1 - 8.0 mmol/L

I made up the break points so don't focus on them closely.
Tincup
E3,E4

circular
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 4552
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am

Re: Inconsistent Keto-Mojo Results-Discouraged!

Postby circular » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:36 am

Julie G wrote:FWIW, Precision Xtra simply doesn't give a reading when the supply isn't adequate. To do so, seems to be inviting chaos. Just saying...

Now, can I find my old Precision Xtra or did I donate it? I think the latter (leaning back with arms crossed over chest). I mainly switched to K-M for cheaper ketone strips. Do I recall correctly that you order your Precision Xtra strips from Canada or somewhere for savings? Did you evaluate whether your strips are cheaper than K-M and by how much? ... I know you don't test often, so a cost comparison may not have been worth your valuable while to undertake.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

User avatar
Julie G
Mod
Mod
Posts: 7810
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:36 pm

Re: Inconsistent Keto-Mojo Results-Discouraged!

Postby Julie G » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:45 am

Now, can I find my old Precision Xtra or did I donate it? I think the latter (leaning back with arms crossed over chest). I mainly switched to K-M for cheaper ketone strips. Do I recall correctly that you order your Precision Xtra strips from Canada or somewhere for savings? Did you evaluate whether your strips are cheaper than K-M and by how much? ... I know you don't test often, so a cost comparison may not have been worth your valuable while to undertake.

I'm a bargain shopper and get my strips via the best deal available at the time determined through a Google search. Last time, I went through a Facebook group (never joined) and a lovely Russian woman guided me through the process of buying ketone strips for around $1 and glucose strips for about .33 cents. It felt a little sketchy as I had to use a third party payer that I was unfamiliar with; no issues. They were delivered promptly, in the same packaging that I had come to expect. How are other folks getting their strips?

Tincup
Mod
Mod
Posts: 2132
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Inconsistent Keto-Mojo Results-Discouraged!

Postby Tincup » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:51 am

circular wrote:
Julie G wrote:FWIW, Precision Xtra simply doesn't give a reading when the supply isn't adequate. To do so, seems to be inviting chaos. Just saying...

Now, can I find my old Precision Xtra or did I donate it? I think the latter (leaning back with arms crossed over chest). I mainly switched to K-M for cheaper ketone strips. Do I recall correctly that you order your Precision Xtra strips from Canada or somewhere for savings? Did you evaluate whether your strips are cheaper than K-M and by how much? ... I know you don't test often, so a cost comparison may not have been worth your valuable while to undertake.


In Australia, the Abbot Freestyle Neo is the same meter, rebranded as the Abbot Precision Xtra. You can find the Neo strips on eBay. I last bought them for my family member has a glioblastoma and is doing keto for that, in August 2017. They were ~$1.20 or $1.30/strip with shipping (have to pay close attention to shipping from Aus). This is the best I could find. My family member switched to the KM in Oct 2017 and gets consistent results, testing 2x/day.

People who've run tests in parallel with PX & KM say the KM reads a little higher, if I recall correctly. Here is a search.
Tincup
E3,E4

Tincup
Mod
Mod
Posts: 2132
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Inconsistent Keto-Mojo Results-Discouraged!

Postby Tincup » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:56 am

Julie G wrote:I'm a bargain shopper and get my strips via the best deal available at the time determined through a Google search. Last time, I went through a Facebook group (never joined) and a lovely Russian woman guided me through the process of buying ketone strips for around $1 and glucose strips for about .33 cents. It felt a little sketchy as I had to use a third party payer that I was unfamiliar with; no issues. They were delivered promptly, in the same packaging that I had come to expect. How are other folks getting their strips?



I think the group you are talking about is here. The lady is Olga Igudina. You can use PayPal. I've never bought strips from her.
Tincup
E3,E4

genie
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:25 am

Re: Inconsistent Keto-Mojo Results-Discouraged!

Postby genie » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:27 am

Here is the BEST explanation for the rationale for Time Restricted Feeding written by Dr. Ted Naiman (http://www.DietDoctor.com):

Time-restricted eating - Diet Doctor
https://www.dietdoctor.com/intermittent ... ted-eating

The graph below tells us the whole story -- comparing the insulin spikes with carbs alone vs. carbs+fat+protein, protein alone or fat alone (see red peaks or insulin spikes).

It also shows the relative effects of carb restriction, intermittent (time-restricted) fasting and high intensity exercise (see green, decreased insulin).

When you combine the three, it's DYNAMITE! There is NO need to measure any ketone levels! You go into nutritional ketosis much faster and stay there longer than with just carb restriction (i.e. a typical saturated-fat rich "ketogenic diet") alone. This is a must-read for those who want to use nutritional ketosis for brain health. Your brain will love you! ;)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by genie on Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Julie G
Mod
Mod
Posts: 7810
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:36 pm

Re: Inconsistent Keto-Mojo Results-Discouraged!

Postby Julie G » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:06 pm

I think the group you are talking about is here. The lady is Olga Igudina. You can use PayPal. I've never bought strips from her.

Yes! When I last bought strips she wasn’t using PayPal, but it still worked beautifully. I found her to be trustworthy.

Tincup
Mod
Mod
Posts: 2132
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Inconsistent Keto-Mojo Results-Discouraged!

Postby Tincup » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:56 pm

genie wrote:Here is the BEST explanation for the rationale for Time Restricted Feeding written by Dr. Ted Naiman (
Time-restricted eating - Diet Doctor
https://www.dietdoctor.com/intermittent ... ted-eating


On thing that Dr. Ted says is "There are many myths about fasting:
“Breakfast is the most important meal of the day!”
We have all been told to eat breakfast. Unfortunately this is terrible advice."

From a circadian rhythm perspective, eating breakfast and then fasting till the next breakfast, or perhaps eating some lunch and then fasting till breakfast is perhaps optimal (though not what I typically do). As sleep is the repair time and you are truly fasted during sleep. In his book, The Circadian Code, researcher, Dr. Satchin Panda, notes that a compressed eating window is best and while best done early, even a compressed eating window late into the evening is better than an uncompressed eating window.
Tincup
E3,E4

genie
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:25 am

Re: Inconsistent Keto-Mojo Results-Discouraged!

Postby genie » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:44 pm

Tincup wrote: ...sleep is the repair time and you are truly fasted during sleep...


Exactly. The problem with Dr. Bredesen's Ketoflex 12/3 program is that if you're eating late (e.g. 6 pm), you'll be digesting and absorbing food for the next 3-5 hrs. Dr. Naiman said it typically takes 12 hrs after your last meal to fully enter the fasted state. So if you break fast at 8 am the next morning, you'll have almost no time in the fasted state during sleep. That's why Dr. Fung recommends that you eat before 2 pm. He also likes more extended fasts (which I haven't tried). Because of T2D (reversed by OMAD), I just want one insulin spike during the day followed by a longer period of autophagy at night. But everybody is different, so you have to do what works for your schedule.

Here is a figure from Dr. Fung's article: When we eat is as important as what we eat – and this is why (see Diet Doctor at https://www.dietdoctor.com/when-we-eat- ... his-is-why). He wrote about a study of Early Time-Restricted Feeding:

"Somewhat counterintuitively, restricting eating at 2 pm produced more feelings of fullness in the evening. It took participants 12 days on average to adjust to this way of eating. So don’t start this eTRF strategy and decide it didn’t work for you after a couple of days. It can take up to 3 or 4 weeks to adjust."
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Return to “Our Stories”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests