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MTHFR and E4/E4

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:44 am
by whit4health
Hi, I'm new to this forum. I've known for about a year that I have E4/E4 as well as MTHFR C677T. I've been reading and doing as much as I can to prevent issues. Neither of my parents had Alzheimer's and no one in their past history has. However, there was a massive stroke in both grandfathers at around age 75 and my dad died of a heart attack at 72. My mother lived to 86 without Alzheimers. She was not a healthy eater either. I will soon be 54 and I've been a pretty healthy eater and have exercised moderately since I was 24. I've noticed during certain times, my mind does not do as well, especially with changes during the monthly cycle. I'm 90% vegan, but I definitely cheat on my diet. Blood work looks good. I could definitely lower my LDL a bit more, but HDL is excellent. Finding all this out in the last year had depressed me initially, but I now feel that knowing helps me work on prevention even more. It also helps my children who are still in their late teens and early 20's to start their protocols early. My main question here, is does anyone else know if they have a MTHFR mutation as well as the E4/E4 and do you follow a certain diet/protocol that is slightly different from what I'm reading here. Seeing that I need to change my diet even more makes it difficult, ie removing all grains, certain vegetables I enjoy and other items does not make it easy. Certainly, I know my kids will never do this at this stage in their lives. Thanks for any advice.

Re: MTHFR and E4/E4

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:00 pm
by roxanne
Hi Whit4health: Welcome to the site. I am a 3/4 female compound heterozygous MHTFR. I follow a ketoflex diet with 14 to 16 daily IF. I switch my diet from low carb to moderate carb depending on amount of exercise or preference at a particular time. For the most part though, my diet is mostly vegetables with chicken, fish or eggs as condiments. For the MHTFR mutation my FM physician recommended Methyl Assist by Pure Encapsulations one pill twice a day and Homocysteine Factors again from Pure Encapsulations one pill twice a day. It does get to be expensive, though as Methyl Assist is $40.00 and Homocyseine Factors is $51.00. Methyl Assist lasts 1.5 months and Homocysteine Factors 3 months at the above dosage.

If you haven't done so, you might find the PRIMER written by Stavia, a physician on the site, full of wonderful information.

Please do not overwhelm yourself with details. The most important thing, in my opinion, is todo the best you can with what you are doing at the moment, and when you get more comfortable tweak your diet in response to how you feel and your lab values. Also, try to do something joyful everyday as I believe that to be very important in maintaining cognitive function.

Have a very Happy New Year.



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Re: MTHFR and E4/E4

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:04 pm
by slacker
whit4health wrote: I've known for about a year that I have E4/E4 as well as MTHFR C677T.


There are several members with both E4 and MTHFR. There is an entire wiki chapter on methylation, including managing MTHFR. It's pretty science-y, so read slowly a little bit at a time.

There are also many threads where members discuss their approaches to MTHFR; use the search function (magnifying glass in tool bar right upper corner). Here's an example of what pops up. Happy reading! You are not alone...

Re: MTHFR and E4/E4

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:38 pm
by Magda
whit4health wrote:Hi, I'm new to this forum. I've known for about a year that I have E4/E4 as well as MTHFR C677T. I've been reading and doing as much as I can to prevent issues. Neither of my parents had Alzheimer's and no one in their past history has. However, there was a massive stroke in both grandfathers at around age 75 and my dad died of a heart attack at 72. My mother lived to 86 without Alzheimers. She was not a healthy eater either. I will soon be 54 and I've been a pretty healthy eater and have exercised moderately since I was 24. I've noticed during certain times, my mind does not do as well, especially with changes during the monthly cycle. I'm 90% vegan, but I definitely cheat on my diet. Blood work looks good. I could definitely lower my LDL a bit more, but HDL is excellent. Finding all this out in the last year had depressed me initially, but I now feel that knowing helps me work on prevention even more. It also helps my children who are still in their late teens and early 20's to start their protocols early. My main question here, is does anyone else know if they have a MTHFR mutation as well as the E4/E4 and do you follow a certain diet/protocol that is slightly different from what I'm reading here. Seeing that I need to change my diet even more makes it difficult, ie removing all grains, certain vegetables I enjoy and other items does not make it easy. Certainly, I know my kids will never do this at this stage in their lives. Thanks for any advice.



Welcome to the site whit4health!

I am truly sorry for your losses!
Thank you for sharing your story with us.
I love to ready introductions from new members who, like YOU, take health into their own hands and even more, try to positively influence their loved once. It is very inspiring:)

Like Roxanne and Slacker mentioned, there are many discussions on MTHFR on the forum. If you would like to do a specific search please clink on the three stacked up squares next to your user name and select the search option.

I agree that significant changes are very difficult but base on what I have read, you have already done a lot of work! You have a right mindset and understanding. Further, needed changes apply slowly - step by step- with no rush. If you think, it would be beneficial to your health to remove grains, do it slowly and please substitute lost fiber with varieties of vegetables and low sugar fruits. Not all grains contain gluten/lectins, sorghum is excellent as well as reasonable amounts of millet or rice:). If you find deficiencies typical for Mthfr polymorphism beside customized supplements, try to saturate your diet in foods rich in those nutrients. I always say try to focus on what you can eat verses what you cannot:)
Dr. Ben Lynch's book "Dirty Genes" is an excellent resource on how to "clean" your genes with diet and life-changes.

As for great new, inspiriting and flavorful recipes, I absolutely love Dr. Gundry's "The Plant Paradox Cookbook". His recipes are super delicious:
https://gundrymd.com/books2/

It is not my intention to overwhelm you with a lot of information, so I am going to end here:)
If you have more detailed questions or concerns please write.

P.S. I have just noticed that Roxane's link to the PRIMER might not work, just incase, here it is again:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1418

My best,
Magda

Re: MTHFR and E4/E4

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:19 pm
by whit4health
Thank you to all for your comments/advice. I will go through the links given. I've bought Dr. Breseden's book and am ready to get started. I will eventually meet with a FM doctor also. I'm glad I found this forum. It's nice to connect with others who understand.

Re: MTHFR and E4/E4

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:42 am
by Torimintz
I have 23 and me and have both 4 alleles. But... how do I know if I have the bad MTHFR. Which MTHFR am I exactly looking for. Are there different types?

Re: MTHFR and E4/E4

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:14 am
by slacker
Torimintz wrote:I have 23 and me and have both 4 alleles. But... how do I know if I have the bad MTHFR. Which MTHFR am I exactly looking for. Are there different types?


please refer to our wiki on MTHFR.

Re: MTHFR and E4/E4

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:20 pm
by Its Me
Here's my brief 2 cents. I have E3/E4 and also 2 copies of the MTHFR mutation. Remember, nothing is set in stone or 100%.

The key to the MTHFR is a problem processing B vitamins. My doctor ordered a Homocysteine test that "diagnoses B6 and B12 Deficiency, as well as a Folate Deficiency", and a B-12 test. Tests results are well in range, so nothing to worry about. So NO special diet, doing nothing special. Reading up, the one concern by the genetic companies is for older women, not so much for others. I am early 70's, woman. This shows that other variables affect that genetic risk, perhaps in my case a healthy lifestyle with lots of vegetables and fruits, low protein, good oils for fat, and some moderate exercise.

As in my other post here: A 23andMe blog post says, "Based on the existing data, scientists at 23andMe have concluded that people should not interpret their genotypes at the common MTHFR variants as having an effect on their health." Read more here: https://blog.23andme.com/health-traits/ ... thfr-gene/

A key to Alzheimer's can be age. I am in my early 70's and seem fine. I eat well, exercise enough, use my brain and keep active.

I would add that both mutations can have a relationship to the same factors as cholesterol and heart/vascular health. That said, my cholesterol factors are "NORMAL" or "IDEAL" on reports.

So, moving forward.

Re: MTHFR and E4/E4

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:45 pm
by Its Me
Torimintz wrote:I have 23 and me and have both 4 alleles. But... how do I know if I have the bad MTHFR. Which MTHFR am I exactly looking for. Are there different types?


This is what I did. You can download the 23andMe raw data file to your computer. It can then be uploaded to a website called Promethease. https://promethease.com/

Unless things have changed, it cost only $5 and you get a report. Here is a YouTube video where a geneticist explains how to use the report file. It helps you understand what this is and isn't. Such as it is not medical advice, and not a fortune teller.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Fd6o5PQnc
TOUR - how to use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwendzsqtkE

NOTE: They also reference a 23andme blog post, " "Based on the existing data, scientists at 23andMe have concluded that people should not interpret their genotypes at the common MTHFR variants as having an effect on their health." Read more here: https://blog.23andme.com/health-traits/ ... thfr-gene/

NOTE: In my other post here you can see I have both MTHFR mutations, and my blood tests are fine. No Problem.

Re: MTHFR and E4/E4

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:33 pm
by slacker
Its Me wrote:Here's my brief 2 cents. I have E3/E4 and also 2 copies of the MTHFR mutation. Remember, nothing is set in stone or 100%.



Are you using the labs "normal" range for your test results, or a stricter criteria of what is considered "ideal"? For example, the "normal" range for homocysteine is up to 15 micromoles/L, where as doctors such as Bredesen suggest less than seven for cognitive health.