New member in Australia

[Spiderman68]

Hi there

New 3/4 here from Australia. Age 51. I had genetic testing done through 23andme some years ago - back when your report used to tell you whether you had wet or dry earwax and whether you were likely to be able to smell asparagus in your urine. I remember that the testing said I had a higher than average chance of getting Alzheimer’s but never thought too much about it. In the past couple years I have noticed my memory getting a bit sticky. I Seem to have difficulty in remembering names. I might be unable to recall a name, think of it a few minutes later and then forget it again a minute of two later. I am also concerned that my vocabulary seems to be reducing. I am a lawyer so these issues are a real concern. I think I must have tried every supplement on iherb over the past couple of years but nothing seems to have helped these issues. Finally a couple of weeks ago I downloaded my raw data off 23andme and ordered a comprehensive report from Foundmyfitness.com. That was when I actually became aware of my APOE status. However what really dismayed me is that I seem to have a number of other polymorphisms that also increase my Alzheimer’s risk. I have polymorphisms on IL-6 and MTNR1A. I am also homozygous for variant alleles on the MTHFR gene which I presume means that my ability to methylate is quite impaired and I may have elevated homocysteine. The advice on Foundmyfitness appears to suggest increasing betaine/choline intake to lower homocysteine unfortunately I also have two T nucleotides on my PEMT gene and one G on my MTRR which both appear to impair the cholinergenic pathway. So I am feeling a bit overwhelmed by all this information. I am not sure if my current memory issues are related to my APOE4 or maybe just directly relate to my reduced methylation ability and choline metabolism. I am not sure if I need to be tested and, if so, where I should start. Any advice would be very much appreciated.

[NF52]

Hi there

New 3/4 here from Australia. Age 51... In the past couple years I have noticed my memory getting a bit sticky. I Seem to have difficulty in remembering names. I might be unable to recall a name, think of it a few minutes later and then forget it again a minute of two later. I am also concerned that my vocabulary seems to be reducing. I am a lawyer so these issues are a real concern...Finally a couple of weeks ago I downloaded my raw data off 23andme and ordered a comprehensive report from Foundmyfitness.com. That was when I actually became aware of my APOE status. However what really dismayed me is that I seem to have a number of other polymorphisms that also increase my Alzheimer’s risk...So I am feeling a bit overwhelmed by all this information...I am not sure if I need to be tested and, if so, where I should start. Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Welcome, Spiderman68! I am going to guess that since you are 51, and have 68 in your user name, you also had a summer or early fall (in Australia) birthday in the last 4 months. If so, happy belated birthday!

Your command of the technical details on your Foundmyfitness report suggests strongly that your brain is, in fact, functioning at a very high level expected of someone with a law degree and a superior verbal fluency, memory and linguistic processing skills. (As a former English major who tested lots of bright kids who scored at the top end of charts, I've seen the difference between a 99th percentile score and a 50th%ile score!) I also know that for people who are at the outer end of the bell curve, even slight changes or variations can be acutely perceived. So before I jump into your report, I think it's likely that what you are experiencing could be more a factor of slightly reduced perceptual processing speed, not "memory" or "verbal skills" per se.

For example, you have multiple synonyms available for almost any word, along with some specific highly specialized words. My guess is that you have not struggled to recall specialized words (like "affidavit" or "deposition") since they have strong associations with specific actions. If you sense that your use of less common synonyms (like "expostulate" for "disagree") is taking longer, then it may simply be that your brain is using speed over precision to select words.

I had a professor at Harvard use the analogy that when we "search" for a word by meaning or first letter, our language centers are like happy 5 year olds who all jump up and say "you mean me?!" The more familiar a word, the faster it jumps up to volunteer. Our memory for less frequently used words may over time degrade a little in "free" (i.e. unaided) recall. I suspect if someone said "what does this word mean?", you would have no problem defining it and using it in with correct syntax and meaning. And like all fluency disorders (including stuttering), the more you think about it, the more it may occur. It may help if you try to slightly slow down your rate of speech (watch former President Obama answer a question) to allow your brain more time to process and retrieve vocabulary behind the scenes to see if that helps.

As for names, I wish I had not always had that problem; I am far more likely to remember someone's casually mentioned birthday than their name! For you, it may again be an issue of needing 3 or 4 or 6 repetitions of the name (in "massed practice" initially and then "intermittent practice") to get it from working memory (30 seconds to 2 minutes roughly) to short-term memory (5-10 minutes) to long-term memory. Studies have found that names like "Baker" and "Fox" are easier to remember because they have visual or semantic associations. Names that are culturally unfamiliar or similar to other names can be repeatedly learned and then forgotten by a brain that's saying "I got this! Oops" My own last name is not common in the US, but also not hard to pronounce. Yet it has often been mangled by people who just looked at it or heard moments before. A nurse who once called me "Mrs. Berserk" (Not even the same first or ending letter, but did get the vowels right!) So if it's a new person, use the name as often as you can in the first five minutes; notice a small feature of the person's face or hair (ex."red-haired Molly") If you recall a name mentally, write it quickly 5-10 times if possible, while picturing the person, their legal case, etc.

As for those genes: Here's an excellent resource from our Wiki: MTHFR gene, methylation and homocysteine

And for the PEMT gene, here's a study of Chinese (which may not be applicable completely to people of European ancestry) that found an association of PEMT and Alzheimer's ONLY in women who were ApoE-4 negative. Note that "A" in this article is the same as the "T" allele your report used.

When stratified by APOE ε4 status or gender, the significant difference was only observed in the APOE ε4 non-carriers and in the female subjects, respectively. We did not find a relationship of this polymorphism with plasma homocysteine levels.

PEMT G523A (V175M) is associated with sporadic Alzheimer's disease in a Chinese population.

PEMT is a source from mygenefood.com that notes an association with an increased risk of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, and offers some suggestions for supplementation of choline and use of green tea extract.

As you probably have found, the use of GWAS (genome-wide association studies) have allowed researchers to find at least 20 "candidate" genes that appear to have an association with one or more forms of dementia. Dr. Joseph Jebelli, a neuroscientist who wrote In Search of Memory, has compared those results with slightly higher rooflines in Cambridge, UK, while ApoE 4 is a relative skyscraper. It's not clear yet whether some of these genes give an added risk, or are simply fellow travelers.

Some members do get specific tests of areas of concern, such as homocysteine, or C-reactive protein, or lipid panels with LDL-P. For many of us in the U.S., that requires a relatively small amount of money spent on direct-to-consumer testing. If interested, you will probably have to research options in Australia. I have tested a few areas myself, but always share the results with my primary care doctor, who has agreed not to put my ApoE 4/4 status into my medical records.

Before diving too deeply into any one SNP's effects, I would encourage you to read the PRIMER, written by a doctor practicing in your hemisphere, who also had ApoE 4/4, and who advocates focusing first on the big areas for driving down risk.

Please keep posting. We learn more when we learn from each other.

[SamNZ]

Hi there

New 3/4 here from Australia. Age 51........ So I am feeling a bit overwhelmed by all this information. I am not sure if my current memory issues are related to my APOE4 or maybe just directly relate to my reduced methylation ability and choline metabolism. I am not sure if I need to be tested and, if so, where I should start. Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Welcome from a down under neighbour! It seems you already understand quite a bit about your position, I appreciate it can all be overwhelming, but be assured that your awareness at such an early stage in any changes puts you in a really favorable position. I am wondering if you have heard of the Dr Bredesen's book - The End of Alzheimers' ( Dr Bredesen was actually speaking in Sydney this weekend) could be a great place to start if you have not read it already. Dr Dave Jenkins is working closely with him and if you are wanting answers fairly quickly I think this would be a great place for you to start ( I would welcome feedback on how it went as well if you do, please message me!!) He runs EndAlzheimers based in Australia and is working closely with Dr Bredesen's RECODE, one of the main therapies which is being trialed to halt/ reverse cognitive decline. I hope this helps, I would love to hear how you get on. If you are not in Sydney, I have a reasonable network of Functional Medicine knowledgeable people over there and I can ask around for you for the best person in your area, although I know Dr Dave does work with people in NZ so should be able to work remotely with you also. Hope this helps a little, let me know how you get on, SamNZ

[Spiderman68]

Thanks for the local knowledge Sam. I will definitely look for Dr Bredesen’s book and will look up Dr Dave Jenkins. I am not based in Sydney but I am in country New South Wales so only about 300 kms away. Practically next door in Australian terms!

[Spiderman68]

Hi NF52. I tried to respond to you earlier but seem to have deleted my own reply. Unfortunately I have no previous experience on these boards. I just wanted to say thank you for the kind words and advice. I will certainly be clicking all the links and working through the information you have provided. Also wanted to say you were right about my Birthday (April)

[NF52]

Hi NF52. I tried to respond to you earlier but seem to have deleted my own reply. Unfortunately I have no previous experience on these boards. I just wanted to say thank you for the kind words and advice. I will certainly be clicking all the links and working through the information you have provided. Also wanted to say you were right about my Birthday (April)

No worries, my friend! I have deleted or lost more replies than anyone, I believe!

Here's a link to tips on how to make this forum software work for you: "How-To" Get the most out of the ApoE4.info website And as someone who also has an April birthday--we did pick the best month, IMHO.