Two month N=1 experiment plus questions: 250 mg NMN + 50 mg pterostilbene

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DanH44
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Two month N=1 experiment plus questions: 250 mg NMN + 50 mg pterostilbene

Postby DanH44 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:00 pm

Hi everyone,

Background:
I haven't posted anything here for a long, long time, but I wanted to share the results of my latest experiment in case it is helpful to anyone. By way of context, my diet has been lightly keto (17% protein, 69% fat, 14% carb) for the last 2 1/2 years. I keep sat fat under 7.5% of calories. I average 45 min daily exercise. My BMI is 21. I am 75 years old this month, with diagnoses of hypothyroid (taking thyroid meds), diabetes (not taking diabetes meds) and osteoporosis (not taking those meds either). I retested my CAC prior to the experiment start and I'm still at zero CAC.

So, this is an experiment with some supplements that in mice have extended lifespan. NMN is a precursor to NAD+ which affects just about every process in your body and without which you will die in about 30 seconds, but which declines by 50% by the time you are 50. Pterostilbene is a souped-up version of the old resveratrol. These have not been well tested at all in humans, so I wanted to see how they would affect my labs.

Results
I kept my diet and exercise fairly consistent all summer
Image

and had labs done before and after the 2-month experiment window.
Image

A1C and fasting insulin
A1C is a very stable test without much variation. I think the A1C drop could represent a real change because I have never had one this low.

The difference in fasting glucose is not real and is within the margin of error. I don't have enough experience with fasting insulin to know how that fluctuates. Using the HOMA2 calculator, the change shows up as some combination of a predicted 20% reduction in beta cell function or a 20% increase in insulin sensitivity. Given the A1C reduction, I would expect it to lean more towards increased insulin sensitivity.

Lipid Panel
I was completely expecting the 2nd labs to come back even higher than the first because pterostilbene is known to increase serum cholesterol. So, imagine my surprise to see this go solidly in the other direction; even to the triglycerides. This is partly why I'm posting this in case anyone else wants to give it a try to see if it can help their lipid panel.

Thyroid
I'm not sure the TSH drop is all that significant. My TSH wanders all over the place. But having both of them high is significant. I'm wondering if at my lowish BMI, do we expect TSH to be in the 5's or is it time to increase my thyroid meds?

Other tests
I also tested CMP, CBC, homoxcysteine, oxLDL, and N-TELOPEPTIDE (NTX) with little change between the two lab dates and all well within the reference ranges. The only out-of-range value was WBC at 3.3 K/uL (15% low). But I've been showing up low on that for years. Doesn't it just mean very low inflammation?
Dan
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Julie G
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Re: Two month N=1 experiment plus questions: 250 mg NMN + 50 mg pterostilbene

Postby Julie G » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:07 pm

Hi Dan! Nice to see you posting. Would you mind sharing the brand of both the NMM and pterostilbene? Have you experienced any changes in energy, mood, exercise ability, sleep quality or cognition with this combo?

Help me understand something. You say that you're diagnosed with diabetes. What is that diagnosis based upon? Your current numbers look really good. Re. your lipids, I like that your HDL:TG level improved with your dramatic reduction in TGs. I'm also surprised by your dramatic drop in LDL-C... although may not be a good thing for a 75 year old. The bulk of evidence suggests that higher cholesterol at middle age (without examining the confounder of insulin resistance) is associated with cognitive decline and higher levels as we age may be somewhat protective. That said, you look amazing for 75. How current is that pic? Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Two month N=1 experiment plus questions: 250 mg NMN + 50 mg pterostilbene

Postby apod » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:49 pm

Very interesting data. I've been hesitant to try pterostilbene as I've read that it has a negative effect on lipids / LDL. It doesn't look like this was the case in your experiment.

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Re: Two month N=1 experiment plus questions: 250 mg NMN + 50 mg pterostilbene

Postby ru442 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:53 pm

Given my propensity to generate high TG's despite following the protocol, this could be a good option for folks like me. I would also be interested in the brand of supplements.

ETA: I see Dr. Mercola has it, married with Quercetin, 90 day supply is reasonable cost:

https://products.mercola.com/quercetin-pterostilbene/
Male 4/4 56 yrs., "Live, Laugh, Love"

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Re: Two month N=1 experiment plus questions: 250 mg NMN + 50 mg pterostilbene

Postby DanH44 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:39 pm

Julie G wrote:Hi Dan! Nice to see you posting. Would you mind sharing the brand of both the NMM and pterostilbene? Have you experienced any changes in energy, mood, exercise ability, sleep quality or cognition with this combo?

Help me understand something. You say that you're diagnosed with diabetes. What is that diagnosis based upon? Your current numbers look really good. Re. your lipids, I like that your HDL:TG level improved with your dramatic reduction in TGs. I'm also surprised by your dramatic drop in LDL-C... although may not be a good thing for a 75 year old. The bulk of evidence suggests that higher cholesterol at middle age (without examining the confounder of insulin resistance) is associated with cognitive decline and higher levels as we age may be somewhat protective. That said, you look amazing for 75. How current is that pic? Thanks for sharing.


Hi Julie! Nice to see you're still here, :D. The NMN was 15g bulk: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B4 ... UTF8&psc=1

The PT was Jarrow: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005A ... UTF8&psc=1

When I first started taking them, I decided to stop drinking coffee because javamide is supposedly a strong competitor for NAD+. So for the 1st few days, what I mostly noticed was caffeine withdrawal. The exception to that was beginning about day 3, my skin started feeling soft and smooth - noticeably and remarkably. I told everyone about it; they all looked at me like I was either delusional or getting senile. The coffee decision lasted only a few days and as soon as I resumed my morning cup, I noticed and recorded an energy boost, seemingly clearer cognition and faster workout recovery. Yes, I did confound the experience with my coffee fiasco, but subjective experience wasn't the point of the experiment. The point was to make sure the NMN+PT wasn't negatively affecting my biomarkers. Anyway, the better energy, etc only lasted a week or two and by the end of the two month period, I had little enthusiasm for physical stress. I noticed my energy for cardio & resistance training rebounded to the positive after I stopped NMN+PT. I hypothesized that perhaps the PT induced my body into thinking it had better things to do (like repair, etc) with the extra NAD+ than squander it on senseless gerbalizing. The softer, better looking skin has persisted. I did not asleep as well with the NMN+PT, waking up more times during the night and taking longer to get back to sleep. I acclimated about 50% during the 2nd month and returned to normal immediately after the experiment end. My mood never changed. But one thing I did notice was beginning on day 5 was that my sense of smell returned. I never even knew it had left. I had no idea there were so many things to smell on my morning run. Also, there were vivid, technicolor dreams. And so many dreams.

My diabetes DX is based on several OGTT's. I don't make much insulin. The only reason my numbers look good is because I don't challenge my beta cells with more glucose than they can cover. Re the lipids, my last NMR was Dec 2018 with a LDL-P at 1850 and LDL-C at 146. My Jul 5 labs probably represent an LDL-P in the 2000's. I'm actually relieved to see it come down. Yes, there is evidence for lower cholesterol associating with mental decline as we age, but this could be coincidentally due to impaired cholesterol production as systems start failing. I'm not artificially reducing cholesterol with statins. I have confidence that my body will make all the cholesterol it needs - and then some, LOL.

Thanks (for the "amazing")! But, yeah, I'm not that young and pretty anymore, sigh. That profile pic is 4 years old. I took this at the gym a month ago: Image

Now it's your turn for questions. You know so much about so many aspects of nutrition; do you happen to know anything about high TSH or low WBC in people restricting calories?
Dan
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Re: Two month N=1 experiment plus questions: 250 mg NMN + 50 mg pterostilbene

Postby DanH44 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:40 pm

apod wrote:Very interesting data. I've been hesitant to try pterostilbene as I've read that it has a negative effect on lipids / LDL. It doesn't look like this was the case in your experiment.


Yes, exactly. This is why I did the labs. It was a complete surprise!
Dan
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Re: Two month N=1 experiment plus questions: 250 mg NMN + 50 mg pterostilbene

Postby DanH44 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:43 pm

ru442 wrote:Given my propensity to generate high TG's despite following the protocol, this could be a good option for folks like me. I would also be interested in the brand of supplements.

ETA: I see Dr. Mercola has it, married with Quercetin, 90 day supply is reasonable cost:

https://products.mercola.com/quercetin-pterostilbene/



I paid $84 for my 2 month supply, but had the hassle of having to measure it into capsules.
Dan
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Re: Two month N=1 experiment plus questions: 250 mg NMN + 50 mg pterostilbene

Postby DanH44 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:26 pm

Julie G wrote: Have you experienced any changes in ...

I forgot to mention that there were (and still are) sexual side effects - more x-rated thoughts, dreams and activity. Hard to understand, given that, as a trans man, I take exogenous testosterone, and that hasn't changed.
Dan
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Re: Two month N=1 experiment plus questions: 250 mg NMN + 50 mg pterostilbene

Postby DanH44 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:35 pm

Please see the addendum to this that I just posted at https://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6604
Dan
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Re: Two month N=1 experiment plus questions: 250 mg NMN + 50 mg pterostilbene

Postby Julie G » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:09 pm

First, thank for all of the detail in your response. It's really helpful. Those are all of the things we should all be examining in any N=1. Second, you STILL look amazing, especially for your age. Kudos!
Now it's your turn for questions. You know so much about so many aspects of nutrition; do you happen to know anything about high TSH or low WBC in people restricting calories?

Lol, thanks for the compliment but I still consider myself a curious student. Re. the TSH, we share the same understanding. When you restrict calories your "engine" idles lower leading to typically benign hypothyroidism. That said, over 5 is getting pretty high. Have you looked under the hood at free T3, T4, and thyroid antibodies? Re. the WBC, mine are also low, but just slightly below the reference range. You're getting down there at 3.3. I'm guessing your neutrophils are low? My understanding is that a little low is OK (nothing to fight) but too low can be a problem. What does your doc say?

REALLY interesting about the lecithin. I'm also using that for choline. Given the relative success of your experiment, I'm curious why you're giving up.


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