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Well here is my carnivore experiment

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
thx1138
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Well here is my carnivore experiment

Postby thx1138 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:23 pm

Carnivore for about 3-4 months, just started switching to leaner meats towards the end not APOE 4/4 but genetically have PPARA, FTO and a couple of other genes like 4/4's have with reagrds to APOE4, wondering if I should just go back to Gundry's 4/4 protocol or stick with carnivore but switch to lean cuts only like elk, bison and deer and for fish cod and shellfish kinda bummed out about these numbers but not really because I knew what the saturatd fats would do in the strip steaks I was eating and ground beef with occasional bacon, I lost about 40 pounds on this way of eating but have low energy, just don't know where to go from here no carnivore is so simple I love it, I was doing OMAD as well and OMAD every other day recently I wonder if the fasting is bad since Im a hyper responder or seem to be with these numbers, thanks I have posted before on the board again don't know where to tun so I tuened to this board, my doctoe is a standard care guy and only will reccomend statins

Lipid Panel
NAME VALUE REFERENCE RANGE
F Cholesterol, Total 569 H <200 (mg/dL)
F Triglyceride 122 <150 (mg/dL)
F HDL 46 >40 (mg/dL)
F LDL Calculated 499 H <100 (mg/dL)
F Chol/HDL Ratio 12.5 H <5.0 (RATIO)
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Tincup
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Re: Well here is my carnivore experiment

Postby Tincup » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:42 am

thx1138,

Question - how many hours had you been fasting before getting your blood drawn for this test?
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thx1138
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Re: Well here is my carnivore experiment

Postby thx1138 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:02 am

14 maybe?

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Re: Well here is my carnivore experiment

Postby thx1138 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:03 am

I have a NMR lipid test planned for tommorow that I ordered myself

thx1138
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Re: Well here is my carnivore experiment

Postby thx1138 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:04 am

Gene files in question with saturated fat intake
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Re: Well here is my carnivore experiment

Postby Tincup » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:15 am

thx1138 wrote:14 maybe?


Reason I asked it that, for me, when I fast longer Tg's increase - because I'm using them for fuel. I'm a Gundry patient and we've talked about this before (will be in one of our transcripts linked here). My highest ever LDL was also at the end of a 5 or 7 day fast (don't recall and was about 175 mg/dL, which is high for me).

Gundry is most concerned about sdLDL-C & oxLDL. I'm sensitive to sat fat and get my lowest numbers for these metrics by eating white fish, shell fish and omega 3/pastured eggs for animal protein. I also minimized even olive oil and subbed algae oil instead.

Have you ever gotten a CAC test? What is your age & sex? A zero CAC, especially if you are older, would give me more comfort. A zero would be expected for a 40 year old male or even a 55 year old female. Of course, if you are young with a non-zero score, then that is also telling.

An online friend recently reduced his CAC score by 18% or thereabouts following this. and he's on about 20g/day carbs. Don't know his genetic status. I think (from memory) his CAC score was around 400. Don't know his lipids.

I presume you are familiar with Dave Feldman's work.

I don't know the answer to the question - is a 499 LDL bad, in your circumstance?

What is your fasting glucose level? I know Shawn Baker has reported his in the 120's as a carnivore. That would not make me comfortable. But he's an MD and I'm not. Carnivore Amber O'Hearn (a friend), I think runs hers in the 80's as does Paul Saladino, MD. Those numbers would make me much more comfortable than the 120's. Of course, Sean eats a lot of meat.
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thx1138
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Re: Well here is my carnivore experiment

Postby thx1138 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:09 pm

Reason I asked it that, for me, when I fast longer Tg's increase - because I'm using them for fuel. I'm a Gundry patient and we've talked about this before (will be in one of our transcripts linked here). My highest ever LDL was also at the end of a 5 or 7 day fast (don't recall and was about 175 mg/dL, which is high for me).

I do remember that (: should fasting not be a strategy if numbers rise like that? I love fasting I usually do OMAD and OMAD every other day

Gundry is most concerned about sdLDL-C & oxLDL. I'm sensitive to sat fat and get my lowest numbers for these metrics by eating white fish, shell fish and omega 3/pastured eggs for animal protein. I also minimized even olive oil and subbed algae oil instead.

I take my NMR tommorow and will know I will post results when I get them

Have you ever gotten a CAC test? What is your age & sex? A zero CAC, especially if you are older, would give me more comfort. A zero would be expected for a 40 year old male or even a 55 year old female. Of course, if you are young with a non-zero score, then that is also telling.

I have although it was back in 2015 when I wasn't do much of a diet my score was 112.94 , I am 50 years old and male

An online friend recently reduced his CAC score by 18% or thereabouts following this. and he's on about 20g/day carbs. Don't know his genetic status. I think (from memory) his CAC score was around 400. Don't know his lipids.

I do tend to like to go low carb which is why I liked carnivore which is pretty much zero carb

I presume you are familiar with Dave Feldman's work.

Yes but I find it hard to follow he gets very technical soemtimes, I am not lean I have about 25% to lose, I would think I could switch to lean meats and fish and eat my body fat and focus on having less saturated fat

I don't know the answer to the question - is a 499 LDL bad, in your circumstance?

right I understand

What is your fasting glucose level? I know Shawn Baker has reported his in the 120's as a carnivore. That would not make me comfortable. But he's an MD and I'm not. Carnivore Amber O'Hearn (a friend), I think runs hers in the 80's as does Paul Saladino, MD. Those numbers would make me much more comfortable than the 120's. Of course, Sean eats a lot of meat.

My fasting glucose is 98

I guess wait for my NMR and see what LDL is really doing, and if its a lot of sdLDL-C & oxLDL it tells me I should go back to his protocol and lean toward the reccomendations for APOE 4/4 because it also reccomends low saturated fat, and start to take my supplements again, thanks for helping me with this puzzle I wish I was wone of those people that could just eat ribeyes all day but I don't think I am I will post the NMR as soon as I get it and any further help is greatly apreciated I do love this community for its knowledge and trying to help us all achive our goals of health thanks again really

Pat

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Re: Well here is my carnivore experiment

Postby Tincup » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:23 pm

thx1138 wrote:RI do remember that (: should fasting not be a strategy if numbers rise like that? I love fasting I usually do OMAD and OMAD every other day


Pat,

I did not mean to imply fasting is a bad strategy, only that it will change the lipid numbers. All the data on high lipids being bad are from people eating SAD, so don't really know what they mean for a carnivore. I'm not aware of anyone who thinks fasting leads to more heart disease.

If you look at the Raggi paper, people with less than 15% annual increase in calcium volume (not the Agatston score) have nearly the same heart disease risk as those with a zero score. I'm interpreting that you were 45 in 2015 with the 112.94 score. That is a material score at that relatively young age. Repeating the CAC to see what your intervention has done would be useful information.
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thx1138
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Re: Well here is my carnivore experiment

Postby thx1138 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:48 pm

Yes I didn’t think you meant that with fasting I will check that out thank you

When you say material score do you mean not good for 45 years old?

I do plan to repeat

Also side note coffee keeps coming up as a cause of high numbers to I used to do French press but now only do paper filter, but wondering if I should take a break all together (easy to say)

Really want my nmr data thanks

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Re: Well here is my carnivore experiment

Postby Tincup » Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:10 pm

thx1138 wrote:When you say material score do you mean not good for 45 years old?

Also side note coffee keeps coming up as a cause of high numbers to I used to do French press but now only do paper filter, but wondering if I should take a break all together (easy to say)


Yes, I do mean not good for a 45 year old. The younger you are when you see calcium in a CAC the worse it is. The reason is that once calcium appears the average annual increase is high (I don't recall offhand, but it is something like 30-50%/year). With % increases like this, you can get to high scores quickly and the younger you are, the more time you have for this increase to take place. Now, it sounds like you've been doing good things to turn this around. The question is whether what you are doing is effective.

I don't know about coffee as I don't drink it. I recently started eating spent coffee grounds from my wife's coffee for the polyphenols though.

Arthur Agatston does remote consults. The first link is to his interview with Ivor Cummins. He might be a good expert to help you navigate this. The second is to his center's website.
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