My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
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Gilgamesh
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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Grundy's Protocol

Postby Gilgamesh » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:08 am

Thanks to a snow delay in Iceland (yes, a snow delay in Iceland...) I've missed part of a conference and have some time to check in here. What an amazing bevy of useful posts have appeared in the last week or so! Thanks to everyone for making this group even better than it was.

Now, as for the Holy Shit moment. Wow! (That is: Holy Shit!) My diet is 98% vegan (80 g of fish a few times a month and some so far non-systematic experimentation with goat and sheep cheeses), so this doesn't matter for me so much, but I have a lot of family members who eat tons of canned fish, and have obvious signs of a reaction that would be explained by histamines. Thanks for this information! Will let them know and see what happens.

GB

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RichardS
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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby RichardS » Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:13 pm

Maybe this is late in the discussion for this, but when I looked up Gundry's publication claiming great success with his treatment regimen, all I found was an abstract to be presented at a professional meeting. Such abstracts are given the most minimal peer review, nothing like what is expected for a peer-reviewed journal article. Has anybody found a peer-reviewed Gundry paper addressing his current protocol?

I followed Dr. Davis for several years before giving up when his Wheat Belly crusade pulled him away from his core area of expertise. While to my knowledge he never published his data in a peer-reviewed paper, at least he prominently quoted such data from others to dovetail with his clinical observations. Gundry is in a solo private practice, right? Forgive my cynicism, but he strikes me as having a lot of incentive to either exaggerate or be careless in his data mining.

Richard S

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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby Julie G » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:06 pm

Never too late, Richard; we're a fairly informal group 8-) That's an interesting observation. A quick PubMed search shows 10 articles (peer-reviewed...I think ?) but NONE that discuss his protocol for preventing/reversing heart disease. He has published numerous articles regarding that, but I'm unsure of the level of scrutiny they've received. Here's a previous thread in which we discuss/review his recommendations: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=570&hilit=dr.+steven+gundry

I appreciate your skepticism. I've gotten to where I test everything on myself to SEE quantifiable results before I trust it. N=1 reigns supreme.

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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby Welcomeaboard » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:33 pm

Tea reduces histamine, etc. zinc deficiency can be the problem as well, search foods that block histamine.

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RichardS
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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby RichardS » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:34 pm

Hey Julie,

I've read most of that long Gundry thread. I've been lurking since August. BTW, thanks for creating/supporting this amazing forum. I've seen no other place like it for supporting people like me with an APOE3/4. FWIW, I started on the TYP forum after getting an elevated CAC score and having a father and grandmother who died from dementia.

Perhaps I should start a new thread, but I went from a lowish carb (usually <100g/day), gluten free, mostly whole foods diet with plenty of sat fats giving me increasingly high LDL-P (from a low of 1100 four years ago to 2200+ in July) and adopted a not so high fat (50-55%) diet aiming for around 20g/day sat fats (almost no dairy, minimal coconut/palm oil and less fatty beef, though dark chocolate was considered a freebie because of the neutral effects of stearic acid on LDL), more MUFA's (EVOO, avo, macadamia) and some additional low GI carbs. After 6 weeks, my LDL-P dropped dramatically (~1350) to nearly its lowest in the last 5 years, with all the other lipids staying about the same including around 150 small LDL-P. One downside is a persistently high Lp(a). So, in my case, an adoption of a significant part of Gundry's protocol for me was quite positive. I had a new NMR drawn today, so we'll see if another 6 weeks mostly on the same path shows a consistent response.

Overall, I was quite pleased to see my response, but saddened to hear it did not go well for you.

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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby GenePoole0304 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:37 pm

" All the mono fats he suggests can shift ones omega3 index unfavorably to more inflammatory status"

try eating an avocado a day and there are few foods in this diet that are strictly mono so I will let the others figure it out, as it is enough for me to know that it would affect ones omega3Index.

Susan it seems histamine will also affect methylation but there us no easy solution except avoid the known triggers and promoters, and there are a few types of probiotics that reduce the impact and some that make it worse, then there is DOAsin worth trying before meals.
"What HIT me?" by Genny Masterman seems to be a good book I'm trying to read.

back to Juliegee well you can just add up how much evoo you consumed a day and from that figure out how much extra saturated fat it contributed and estimate the rest if your meals were about the same just add that to your numbers and if you had an avocado a day then include that and you then might be able to come up with an estimate of the difference.

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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby Gilgamesh » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:42 am

GenePoole0304, and anyone interested in effects of dietary lipids. See:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=976

GB

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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby Stavia » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:55 am

RichardS wrote:Maybe this is late in the discussion for this, but when I looked up Gundry's publication claiming great success with his treatment regimen, all I found was an abstract to be presented at a professional meeting. Such abstracts are given the most minimal peer review, nothing like what is expected for a peer-reviewed journal article. Has anybody found a peer-reviewed Gundry paper addressing his current protocol?

I followed Dr. Davis for several years before giving up when his Wheat Belly crusade pulled him away from his core area of expertise. While to my knowledge he never published his data in a peer-reviewed paper, at least he prominently quoted such data from others to dovetail with his clinical observations. Gundry is in a solo private practice, right? Forgive my cynicism, but he strikes me as having a lot of incentive to either exaggerate or be careless in his data mining.

Richard S

I hear you Richard. Its called "cherry picking" ie only quoting studies that support one's hypothesis. As opposed to a rigorous literature review which starts with no bias.

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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby Welcomeaboard » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:00 pm

I vote yes to a Richard and Stavia ticket in 2014.

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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby Julie G » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:52 pm

RichardS, God bless for getting through that thread :D We love when lurkers become posters- Kudos! Very interesting to see your diet/lipid interactions. You seems to have had an initial positive response to HFLC that tempered with time. I'm totally on the lookout to see if the same is happening with me... Did you check your thyroid with your worsening lipids? Regardless, congrats on re-hacking it and getting things back in line. I'm working to do the same.

FWIW, I agree with you. I think Dr. Gundry has some really good innovative ideas. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater ;) but rather tweaking macronutrient ratios within his basic framework. His reputation seems solid, but the lack of peer-reviewed research with his CAD prevention/reversal protocol is disconcerting. Trust me, I've wondered about "cherry-picking" to make his numbers look better. My hope is that he will find the time to expose his protocol to more scrutiny so that we can all learn more.

Interesting, GenePool0304- you suspect my worsening lipids have to do with an increase in SFA. And that by eating avocado, as opposed to using EVOO, I can get the benefits of MUFA without the downside of SFA. Am I understanding that correctly? You are aware that Dr. Gundry argues that there is a difference between plant and animal SFAs. He claims the former is safe for E4s. You seem to be suggesting SFA is SFA regardless of source. Hmmm. I guess that would be an easy n=1 test, especially on a 4/4 as we react very quickly to dietary changes. That could be an important distinction for each of us to make in figuring out our ideal diet rather than relying on Dr. Grundy's observations.

Quickly, sweet George privately messaged me to let me know I'd been spelling Dr. Gundry's name wrong throughout this entire thread :oops: Apologies. Of course, I KNOW it's Grundy. I think I misspelled it in the header and my very aggressive iOS 8 auto-correct took over and "fixed" it every time. That's Julienne's story & I'm sticking with it. Thank you- George!


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