Crazy high HDL...questions?

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
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Julie G
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Re: Crazy high HDL...questions?

Postby Julie G » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:37 am

You know what's MOST interesting to me, Kit, is the bread.. I'm going out on a limb here, but your n=1 experiment; eating high amounts of EVOO, nuts, AND whole grains (yielding such terrific results) MAY indicate a design flaw in the original PREDIMED study. They separated out those 3 components, by encouraging heavy use of only ONE, to tease out the effects of each. (They also may have handicapped the "whole grain" part of the experiment by not using the healthiest options.) But, what if it's the synergistic combo of all three that yields the best results...as indicated by your lipids? Or, you just may be the luckiest girl in the world, dipping hot, freshly baked bread into amazing EVOO with pristine lipids to show for your effort? With my gluten intolerance, I'm beyond envious...Sigh :mrgreen:

Talk to me about veg. I eat them till they're coming out of my ears...how about you? With the bread, it seems like you wouldn't have room for an abundance..Thanks for all of the helpful tips. I greatly appreciate them.

SpunkyPup
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Re: Crazy high HDL...questions?

Postby SpunkyPup » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:58 am

"Spunky, that's exactly what I'm trying to discern...whether or not my HDL is functional. From all I've read, large HDL is the functional kind as it removes the most cholesterol; small HDL is the non-functional. So if my NMR indicates my HDL-P, large HDL-P, and HDL-P size exceed the 99-100%ile, it seems like I could assume I have the functional type, right? Or, should I not rely on the NMR?"

the only thing you can rely on is the NMR to actually see if you have more of the functional particles or not. I have seen Dr Bernstein the diabetic doctor expert with HDL of 120 and others with very HDL like myself but only a moderate amount of functional but with increasing non functional which will mislead other doctors who do not know about what you discovered but other lipid values will confirm this such as APO-B/A or the other way around which I seem to mix up recalling but will be stated on most reports and looks for ideal ratio of .3 and in order to get there you need more functional HDL and other stuff like LDL-P# around 700 which is ideal..

now that you are getting it there is another thing that drives LDL-P# down is post-prandrial trig response which if one eats too much of any type of fat and is an E4 and most are hyper-absorbers of fat and the only way to get that last thing under control, well there are a few more just no time to write a book here, is to get a sterol absorption test.
there are a few companies offering this kind of test.. you need a real good lipidologist to get this far, unfortunately you now more than yours so try finding one who can really help you or you are wasting your time and getting bad advice and will never get the good outcomes you really want.
http://www.bostonheartdiagnostics.com/s ... e_test.php

now you want to understand the mind bending science behind this one take a crack at understanding it, I only grasp the principles behind it and it is rock solid.
http://www.biomarkerbliki.org/articles/9#/section/32

"Talk to me about veg. I eat them till they're coming out of my ears"
yep me too and you know fiber reduces fat absorption and reduces LDL..
there are academic studies to back this up but can't find them now it takes time
"Carrots - Consumption of 200 grams of raw Carrots may lower total serum Cholesterol levels by an average of 11%.
Celery may lower total serum Cholesterol by 7%, even at low doses
Garlic -1/2 to 1 clove per day may lower cholesterol by 9%
Globe Artichoke is like a traffic cop (seldom seen these days because hiding behind a pole or resting under a tree) and stops traffic to cholesterol synthesis.
Some varieties of sweet potatoes bind with cholesterol and experimentally have been shown to reduce cholesterol levels by 13% "
http://www.herbsorganic.co.za/newslette ... t%204.html
"Consumption of 200 grams of raw Carrots lowers total serum Cholesterol levels by an average of 11%."
this is study I can't find you find it
http://www.herbsorganic.co.za/newslette ... t%204.html

Bonus find while looking it up just for you I got this

"helped him lower his LDL-P numbers from mid 1000′s to the 700 range."
it is buried in the comments section and never verified it, but doubt it is not true and has a basis in science but you would have to chase it down yourself but my suspicions are if one has an imbalanced immune system it might not work as well for you, linked to bile salt-cholesterol binding is what I'm thinking.
so I surmise gut health is intertwined with cholesterol adsorption
http://freetheanimal.com/2013/12/resist ... wbies.html

there is a much higher level discussion at www.heartlifetalk.com but we are moving here in the right direction.
back to showing the wifie my garden pix its peony time here.

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KatieS
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Re: Crazy high HDL...questions?

Postby KatieS » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:52 pm

Spunky, 120, but mostly non-functional HDL…you're correct, all lipids should be NMR.
I eat all those cholesterol decreasing foods in the articles you kindly provided.
It is strange how much my HDL has increased, the low LDL has been essentially unchanged for decades. Could this high HDL be associated with E4? Are E4s more likely to have non-functional HDL?

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Julie G
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Re: Crazy high HDL...questions?

Postby Julie G » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:51 pm

To my knowledge, the E4 allele is NOT associated with higher HDL. Many here are struggling to raise their HDL levels. According to Spunky, (and my understanding) the only way to KNOW if your HDL is functional is to do an NMR or other similar advanced lipid testing. I can't wait for you to do it, Kit. I strongly suspect you'll get more good news.

SpunkyPup
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Re: Crazy high HDL...questions?

Postby SpunkyPup » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:22 pm

"Are E4s more likely to have non-functional HDL?"

from my observations of those reporting at another forum with docs that would appear to be the more common occurrence.

The only reliable test is nmr, or the BerkleyLabs equivalent which is different, and the old test is obsolete and should not be used as the costs are almost comparable now a days and the old test is so unreliable and prone to misdiagnosis. I can tell you Australia and the public system in Canada still use it along with ApO-B just for the lower cost but just about any public cardiologist worth his salt in Canada will offer it as a paid option and it is available at any private clinic. Even Dr Dayspring the lipid expert says the old standard panel should not be used anymore so I would stay clear of anyone still using it as it probably means they are a dinosaur.

"I eat all those cholesterol decreasing foods in the articles"

yes but if you eat them along with a high fat diet your ldl may not be as low as an E3 would expect as as you know E4 have various different and varied genetic differences among them to be stingy with fat, that is to maintain it longer in circulation where it is prone to oxidation and calcium deposits in the arteries. This used to be an advantage when fatty animals were not in abundant supply as now they all are grain fed to fatten them up so you get a nicely marbled steak. That is why it is better to eat grass fed animals with much lower fat ratios.

Remember the doctor who just about cured her MS? She said feed your mitochondria so here is a paper to support Terry Wahls research.

https://www.academia.edu/5960715/NURTRI ... _All_About

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Re: Crazy high HDL...questions?

Postby Welcomeaboard » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:31 am

It is all about the proton waterfalls in the mitochondria.


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