Welcomeaboard wrote:George, Lance, Hep, very interesting and informative posts in various threads today as well as many others.
Your posts led me to the citric acid cycle or Tca or krebbs cycle. There is a connection of ATP and AD and Parkinson's where the mitochondria do not have the proper amount of ATP. This ramping up of vitamin c amounts looks like something that may help or work? All of you seem to be very well informed in areas that may lend some ideas or knowledge? I would like to see what you think or know in this area. Thanks
Interesting. I am very concerned about a similar if not same issue for different reasons. Have an genetic oxygen deficiency that is estimated to be 25-50% decrease from "normal". With today's technologies, dieting it is possible to circumvent the oxygen glucose pathway and use the ketone / fatty acid pathway. I am probably 12% - 25% deficient on oxygen carrying capacity because I removed a 50% cause of the oxygen shortfall... but when I utilize exogenous ketones my performance picks up dramatically (est 40% increase in reps, haven't done speed testing or vo2 or lactate threshold etc...although I recently sprained my MCL trying to run a fast quarter... maybe I have become too powerful!!! LOL). The use of ketones increases performance and also appears to build more mitochondrial capacity. Therein lies the rub...when mitochondria don't have ketones just oxygen and glucose, the question becomes what happens when ATP is short of what the mitochondria need.
My answer in the past has been that the cells simply do not produce the power because they somehow never have been able to produce it and either never ask for it or it falls on a body that says "don't have it"... "don't bother me". I don't know this for sure, but I've never seen any evidence of ROS or other negatives that would flow from fermentation. But I just am speculating based on uneducated observation. Now that there may be more mitochondria around because they are using the fatty acid pathway, does this change the nature of an ATP shortfall among mitochondria when placed in an oxygen glucose pathway who are looking for energy production? eg does the cell potentially go into fermentation? And if so what are the implications for cancer? for AD types of issues? Unfortunately I haven't had time to even outline this problem in my mind but I think it starts with a Vo2 test. That will likely show a low outcome on glucose and much higher on ketones. Not sure how to assess the risk beyond that, except to look for instances of ROS generation. Not sure how to measure it though.
Anyway, I worry because the ATP shortfall could lead to fermentation pathway utilization and cancer. Your question makes me wonder if the brain side of that is fermentation and AD/Parkinsons.
Do wonder if the issue holds some questions for APOE4s in general. I don't really think it does. Ironically ROS (I think) can be a way to generate apoptosis in diseased cells. Rhonda Patric said something on Joe Rogan about APOE4s not repairing brain cells, but does that mean we wouldn't replace a brain cell that died? Also wonder if it means we shouldn't go ketogenic to glucose and back again and again... maybe the ROS and possible fermentation pathway would lead to plaque etc. formation. But as the gap between astrocyte performance in ketogenic state and glucose state increases, I would worry that it leaves many unmet ATP demands on the cell / neurons, thereby increasing ROS and damage. Seems like a stretch to me to be honest, but I don't know the energy/thermodynamics at all...maybe its not so far fetched. I do wonder if the ROS isn't used one day with some stem cell therapy to repair / freshen up the brain by killing diseased cells and getting them replaced. Realize it is a long way away as BBB is a huge obstacle.
Anyway I am a layman. Engineer undergrad. Use terms above loosely not sure mitochondria demand anything they might just respond to ATP demands, etc, etc. Any expert or layman with reccs are greatly appreciated. Body is so amazing, how little we know about it is equally amazing. After I get a little smarter and conversant I'll probably find an expert on this stuff, call in a favor, and pick a brain (won't be surprised if it is an APOE4 brain) for dinner / lunch.