New Test Results: CAC Score and LDL-P

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
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LanceS
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Re: New Test Results: CAC Score and LDL-P

Postby LanceS » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:55 pm

Welcomeaboard wrote:George, Lance, Hep, very interesting and informative posts in various threads today as well as many others.

Your posts led me to the citric acid cycle or Tca or krebbs cycle. There is a connection of ATP and AD and Parkinson's where the mitochondria do not have the proper amount of ATP. This ramping up of vitamin c amounts looks like something that may help or work? All of you seem to be very well informed in areas that may lend some ideas or knowledge? I would like to see what you think or know in this area. Thanks


Interesting. I am very concerned about a similar if not same issue for different reasons. Have an genetic oxygen deficiency that is estimated to be 25-50% decrease from "normal". With today's technologies, dieting it is possible to circumvent the oxygen glucose pathway and use the ketone / fatty acid pathway. I am probably 12% - 25% deficient on oxygen carrying capacity because I removed a 50% cause of the oxygen shortfall... but when I utilize exogenous ketones my performance picks up dramatically (est 40% increase in reps, haven't done speed testing or vo2 or lactate threshold etc...although I recently sprained my MCL trying to run a fast quarter... maybe I have become too powerful!!! LOL). The use of ketones increases performance and also appears to build more mitochondrial capacity. Therein lies the rub...when mitochondria don't have ketones just oxygen and glucose, the question becomes what happens when ATP is short of what the mitochondria need.

My answer in the past has been that the cells simply do not produce the power because they somehow never have been able to produce it and either never ask for it or it falls on a body that says "don't have it"... "don't bother me". I don't know this for sure, but I've never seen any evidence of ROS or other negatives that would flow from fermentation. But I just am speculating based on uneducated observation. Now that there may be more mitochondria around because they are using the fatty acid pathway, does this change the nature of an ATP shortfall among mitochondria when placed in an oxygen glucose pathway who are looking for energy production? eg does the cell potentially go into fermentation? And if so what are the implications for cancer? for AD types of issues? Unfortunately I haven't had time to even outline this problem in my mind but I think it starts with a Vo2 test. That will likely show a low outcome on glucose and much higher on ketones. Not sure how to assess the risk beyond that, except to look for instances of ROS generation. Not sure how to measure it though.

Anyway, I worry because the ATP shortfall could lead to fermentation pathway utilization and cancer. Your question makes me wonder if the brain side of that is fermentation and AD/Parkinsons.

Do wonder if the issue holds some questions for APOE4s in general. I don't really think it does. Ironically ROS (I think) can be a way to generate apoptosis in diseased cells. Rhonda Patric said something on Joe Rogan about APOE4s not repairing brain cells, but does that mean we wouldn't replace a brain cell that died? Also wonder if it means we shouldn't go ketogenic to glucose and back again and again... maybe the ROS and possible fermentation pathway would lead to plaque etc. formation. But as the gap between astrocyte performance in ketogenic state and glucose state increases, I would worry that it leaves many unmet ATP demands on the cell / neurons, thereby increasing ROS and damage. Seems like a stretch to me to be honest, but I don't know the energy/thermodynamics at all...maybe its not so far fetched. I do wonder if the ROS isn't used one day with some stem cell therapy to repair / freshen up the brain by killing diseased cells and getting them replaced. Realize it is a long way away as BBB is a huge obstacle.

Anyway I am a layman. Engineer undergrad. Use terms above loosely not sure mitochondria demand anything they might just respond to ATP demands, etc, etc. Any expert or layman with reccs are greatly appreciated. Body is so amazing, how little we know about it is equally amazing. After I get a little smarter and conversant I'll probably find an expert on this stuff, call in a favor, and pick a brain (won't be surprised if it is an APOE4 brain) for dinner / lunch.

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Russ
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Re: New Test Results: CAC Score and LDL-P

Postby Russ » Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:29 am

George,

Yes - I signed up for Beseden's study. Will indeed be interesting to cross-correlate recommendations and look for both commonalities and differences. I don't think anybody has it perfect and so much to learn. As noted when we were talking about the potential study, I see 2 barriers to my final actual participation: 1) supplement vs food strategies, and 2) single-minded brain-only focus. I continue to think it's best to look to food - but Gundry (rightly) points out that our food is not presently as nutrient dense as it once was (I told him I was working on that). I also think a good way to test for 'rightness' is to what extent a solution that's good for brain is also good for heart, and thus indeed comparing Gundry vs Breseden insights might themselves be most interesting.

My call w Gundry was 1 Hr. Phone consults are not coverable by insurance and are cash out of pocket billed at $500/hr - not something to do too much of!

Thanks - will look into the Vitamin C stuff. I think it has much merit as important piece of the puzzle, but am skeptical of single-variable disease cause claims. Our bodies are highly interdependent systems and although one deficiency can have huge effects, so could another. I do know that the evolutionary-founded anti-aging GP I go to is a strong supporter of IV Vit C for some things (e.g. he claims some remarkable results with cancer).
Russ
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Re: New Test Results: CAC Score and LDL-P

Postby Russ » Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:36 am

WA, George,

Just chiming in to underscore the key point re ketones, mitochondria and brain health. I think Terry Wahl's said it best - 'mind your mitochondria'… supplying ketones preferentially leads to a much more efficient and clean brain metabolism. For an energy guy like me, I guess it's kind of like burning natural gas vs (old school) diesel ;-)
Russ
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Eat whole, real, flavorful food - fresh and in season... and mix it up once in a while.

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Russ
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Re: New Test Results: CAC Score and LDL-P

Postby Russ » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:10 am

Reposting my Aug '14 lab tests from Gundry due the "attachment issue" so others can see what his panels look like…

Russ Blood Tests Aug 2014 Singulex Labs (redacted).pdf


Russ Blood Tests Aug 2014 HDL Labs (redacted).pdf
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Russ
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Eat whole, real, flavorful food - fresh and in season... and mix it up once in a while.


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