help interpreting markers - Julie? George? anyone else?

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Julie G
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Re: help interpreting markers - Julie? George? anyone else?

Postby Julie G » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:03 am

Nice- I'm happy dancing with you even before coffee :D

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SusanJ
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Re: help interpreting markers - Julie? George? anyone else?

Postby SusanJ » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:48 am

Congrats on the results, Stavia! It's nice to see positive results from all that work.

I have to offer a bit of caution relying only on the TG/HDL as a marker of particle size. Here's my last NMR (July):

TG = 76
HDL = 80

Yep, a ratio less than 1. So what's the problem?

My NMR also showed LDL-P jumped from 1147 to 1599 and LDL small size jumped from 93 to 522.

Inflammatory markers all low, insulin at 2, and HbA1c at 5.3 (unchanged from last test), so not looking like insulin resistant.

So, it was definitely a WTF moment. :?

After consultation with my doc, he's not overly worried (seems to lean towards high LDL isn't necessarily a bad thing if inflammation is low) but we're looking at changes that happened between last year's test and this one.

Last year I dropped my estrogen amounts because I wasn't metabolizing right, dialed back aerobic exercise and weight training (damn RA) and dropped Vitamin D from 10,000 to 2500 (I was well over 90 at last test). So, we've reupped the estrogen (and I'm working on the healing my ancient stress pathways to rebalance my hormonal systems per my Last, Best Cure post) and I'm working out on the elliptical a little harder and back to more weight reps to hopefully to beat those small particles into remission. I'm not upping Vitamin D since I'm happy with my last result at 50. Gonna retest in 6 months.

I think we all need to understand that our APOE4 friends might throw us discordant results from time-to-time, so more data might just be better in understanding what is going on underneath the hood so to speak, so we can fine-tune.

We also know that weight loss can skew results, too. So, maybe look to an NMR when your weight stabilizes?

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Re: help interpreting markers - Julie? George? anyone else?

Postby LanceS » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:17 am

Awesome!

To my simple E4 mind and slightly pudgy E4 body, losing the weight is key.

You eat the right stuff (who cares what you call the diet... and I don't condone my occasional donut eating!).

You get your exercise (E4 levels of exercise).

You end up where you are in in a pretty good place.

Congrats!

Living the dream I can hit those figures ... because of my not so great CAC scores and possibly five-ish years of living life as an almost diabetic (don't qualify under American rules, but those goalposts keep moving because we keep getting fatter), LDL figures like yours might call for additional scrutiny.... but sounds like you should be good to go with your family history etc.

If you're looking for CIMT score you might be able to find a lab in Hawaii that doesn't use insurance but may give you a better rate than $250. We have these labs for CAC scores in major metropolitan areas... $100 cash (or local check) for my CAC test. Have to imagine there might be some labs that will do CIMT or similar in Hawaii. Guess the question is are they cash oriented or not... once you have to hire some people to process claims it gets expensive especially in Hawaii where the surf is always up and employees not always very productive! No idea how to find these labs however. You might also need some kind of doctor's authorization so I would try to arrange beforehand. Then again you might want to just hit the beach see the sights and enjoy life!

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Re: help interpreting markers - Julie? George? anyone else?

Postby Welcomeaboard » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:39 am

Great news Stavia, now you may be able to try something for patients based on known results.

Susan, if anyone can figure it out it is you. I like that you did not up the vitamin d3 in that if it is what have you the results last year, it will show. If you did estrogen and no exercise than you could isolate that as well, etc. you could basically see what did what, but that is just me as a curious scientist. If it is not better than probably the d3 needs increasing next year. I patiently await your n=1 results next year.

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Re: help interpreting markers - Julie? George? anyone else?

Postby SusanJ » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:10 pm

Thanks, WA. It would be good to see if the estrogen is indeed the culprit, but I need to get off my butt and exercise more, too. I'd like to do one at a time, but I'm going to be aggressive since my dad had a heart attack at 61, his sister not long after, both had bypasses and 2 cousins who dropped dead of heart attacks in their 50's. Not a good track record there on the paternal side, and I always say that I don't want to give myself a heart attack on the way to staving off AD. ;) Will let you know the n=1 results.

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Julie G
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Re: help interpreting markers - Julie? George? anyone else?

Postby Julie G » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:48 pm

Wow, Susan- thanks for the heads up. TG/HDL usually tells the story about particle size...BUT there's always an exception. Good on you for tracking down your changes and working to turn things around. You've always had stellar lipids and I have no doubt you'll be back to normal quickly. It's very generous of you and Stavia to share your markers. By doing so, we all learn so much. AND, you both serve as examples to us all to test often. Things can change quickly.

FWIW, I agree that a EBT or CIMT provide the best evidence in the absence of advanced lipids, but (depending on your prior imaging history) be forewarned that EBT radiation risk is NOT insignificant. Some machines are FDA approved and deliver much less radiation. Many are not and can expose you to the equivalent of 6+ years of radiation. It's important to weigh your risk factor, family history, and prior radiation exposure.

A CIMT (no radiation) supposedly correlates fairly well with CAD risk- especially in younger patients, but it's not 100% reassurance. I had a VERY difficult time finding a local CIMT screening. My husband and I are traveling to have them done later this month, just for baseline screening; $140 each. We are paying out-of-pocket.

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Re: help interpreting markers - Julie? George? anyone else?

Postby LillyBritches » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:36 pm

Susan et al - I admit I don't understand NMR and its related numbers. I've just done the VAP, but I know it's limited to particle size. So, Jul, you're right - I need to do NMR. Susan, I think you're right on track with increasing your estradiol, returning to moving your body more (both aerobic and strength training), and dropping weight. All of those factors are sooo important. And, yes...D3 at 90 is prolly too high. lol Dunno if you needed to go down to 2500, but lab numbers will ultimately tell the tale. It looks like your inflammatory markers are all great, though, right? That's stellar!

I gotta tell you...I know your RA is a b-word...but if the biochemical processes that fuel it stave off AD...hmm. You know?

Jul, I'm so happy you and hubs are getting your CIMTs. Head 'er off at the pass, I say. And I'm fully confident that you'll both have negative (the good negative) results. Something I forgot to mention in my email: that you've been on estradiol for awhile now bodes extremely well, don't you think? Estradiol/estrogen keeps our arteries young, flex, and plaque-free.

WA, I know you and I are big D3 proponents. And this is where I venture away from my PCP's and Dr. Trutt's thinking...I'd like my D3 to be around 60ish. We'll see at next labs. More and more evidence is surfacing re good D3 levels.
I'm just a oily slick in a windup world with a nervous tick.

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Re: help interpreting markers - Julie? George? anyone else?

Postby LillyBritches » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:52 pm

P.S. And Stavia - YYYYYYYYYYYYYYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! Nailed. IT. :D :D :D Soooo happy for you!!! And for all the happy dancers! :D
I'm just a oily slick in a windup world with a nervous tick.

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Re: help interpreting markers - Julie? George? anyone else?

Postby Welcomeaboard » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:27 pm

I look at it this way on D3, I have not seen where they state the ones with high D3. 30, 40, 50 etc. whatever the study is that they studied for- died or had the disease or fared worse. Or that half died with 50. So, I figure I will raise mine and if I get the disease or die, I will let you know it does not work. D3 regulates over 2000 genes according to Dr. Mercola, I have no idea if that is correct or not or which ones they are, just that I want em running smooth. I have no idea if the number is 73 or 46 or 84.5, etc. I have been keeping mine over 35 for a couple years and seem to be doing ok. After the study you showed at 50? in another thread makes me want to go higher.

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Re: help interpreting markers - Julie? George? anyone else?

Postby Gilgamesh » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:51 am

First, congratulations!!

Second:
So.....can I be happy for now with the HDL/TG ratio and leave it as is until next year when I get to the States for an NMR?

I would say yes, though it I don't know the details of your family history. But you can get ApoB tested where you live, right?

GB


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