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My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
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RichardS
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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby RichardS » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:03 pm

Juliegee wrote:RichardS, God bless for getting through that thread :D We love when lurkers become posters- Kudos! Very interesting to see your diet/lipid interactions. You seems to have had an initial positive response to HFLC that tempered with time. I'm totally on the lookout to see if the same is happening with me... Did you check your thyroid with your worsening lipids? Regardless, congrats on re-hacking it and getting things back in line. I'm working to do the same.


Thanks, Julie. I've only had two or three TSH levels done, all normal. I seem to have none of the symptoms or signs people associate with thyroid problems, so even though Davis and others recommended checking, I've skipped the full thyroid panel. I'm convinced that diet is by far the biggest modifiable factor driving my lipid measures.

Richard

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Juliegee
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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby Juliegee » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:17 pm

Agreed, but smart to check on a full-system slowdown ;) We'd love to see your new NMR results when you get them, Richard. I've always contended that we learn the most from shares like this.

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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby GeorgeN » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:03 pm

Richard,

"Gundry is in a solo private practice, right? Forgive my cynicism, but he strikes me as having a lot of incentive to either exaggerate or be careless in his data mining. "

I've got a fairly sensitive BS meter. I don't get that from him at all. My own testing shows I do pretty well when following his recommendations. I have tested very frequently.

As to testing, the test suite is very extensive. All patients comment he tailors his recommendations individually based on these test results. For an example of the suite, see Russ' post here: https://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=526&p=8972&hilit=gundry#p8972
George
E3,E4

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RichardS
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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby RichardS » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:10 pm

George,

Glad to hear your testing is going well with him. My concern is more about the claimed rigor with which he is writing up his findings for the academic world, not that he isn't helping you and others in the clinic. My wife is a pediatric neurologist. I think I have a good idea what it takes to run a private practice. She hardly has time to finish her notes much less try to publish anything as a solo practitioner (and she has plenty of cases and data worth publishing). My line of work is as a university neuroscience researcher, so when I see the 1000 patients in the abstract written up as all being followed up with some miniscule morbidity from a private practice, that gets my BS meter twitchy. I would love for his write up of his work to be accurate, but until it passes real peer review, I'm going to stay skeptical. Maybe I should visit the guy being a reasonable drive away, but it would be 100% out of pocket costs because of my HMO coverage.

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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby LanceS » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:25 am

Juliegee wrote:In a word: BAD sigh... But, of course, I'm going to share them with you so that we can continue to learn together.


Sorry to have the Gundry thing distract this thread.... I'll try to make it up to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuj6nxCDBZ0

I enjoyed the preso, but go to 57:04. Chart of fasting insulin (I know, you're not looking for more tests!!!) against particle count. Listen to his dialogue if you want some more context.

I'm not saying guys like Dayspring can be ignored (he still is pushing particles from what I understand).

But maybe you can get a fasting insulin, exhale a bit, and give yourself a pat on the back?

Cheers

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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby Juliegee » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:04 am

Just did it- fasting insulin-3 :D I'll check out the whole presentation later; great accent. Thanks, Lance!

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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby GeorgeN » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:08 am

Lance,

Thanks! I've just looked at snippets around your 57 min mark, but seems to go with my interpretation that insulin/glucose/met syndrome are primary. My last fasting insulin was last summer at 3.4.

Richard,

I look at any of these as ideas for me to try and see how I react not as something to blindly follow.

I've had idopathic afib for 10 1/2 years. I was in afib for 57% of the time my first 4 1/2 months, including a 2.5 month episode. I manged to turn that around and have had mostly excellent control for the last 10 years. In my last 18 months, I've had 1 hour of afib. I'm guessing my approach would not survive an RCT as it does not work for everybody. The foundation of my approach is magnesium intake to bowel tolerance. Around 5 g/day for me. To develop this approach, I looked at any studies, n=1, anecdotes & etc to for ideas. I acquired an array of monitoring devices and systematically started testing ideas. I've also done A B A testing with my approach and the absence of magnesium intake leads to afib in 24-48 hours for me.

I've adopted this approach with my E4 gene. However, looking for actionable metrics for cognitive issues, when I have no symptoms is difficult. It is a bit easier with heart disease - using CIMT's & various measures of inflammation. I've not actually met with Gundry yet, though am considering it. Most of my testing is on my own and on my own dime, too.
George
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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby Stavia » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:17 am

Juliegee wrote:Just did it- fasting insulin-3 :D I'll check out the whole presentation later; great accent. Thanks, Lance!

You see honey, that's stunning, and we know from many consistent studies glycaemic control is critical. There hasn't even been one outlier study in the field. Or a glucose-Seneff lol.
You deserve a big happy dance. The bulk of your markers are exceptional.

You'll get your lipids in better shape. You've found your threshold, now titrate down.

Hug

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RichardS
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Re: My Lipids under Dr. Gundry's Protocol

Postby RichardS » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:57 pm

George,

I'm with you on seeking out actionable ideas where the RCT's are missing. One thing that gives me pause is the notion that some have of throwing everything with supposed potential based on non-RCT research at a given problem - the shotgun or "let's hope somethings sticks" approach. [The flip side of the magic pill philosophy.] That is why I'm right there with you when you mentioned doing ABA testing (off-on-off therapy for those unfamiliar with the case-study experimental lingo). Isolate a single treatment and go on and off a couple times while tracking outcome measures closely. Truth be told, I design human experiments for a living and still find it really tough at times to truly control everything not related to the therapy (the "B" part) I'm trying to test for my heart and brain health. Real life gets in the way even with the best of intentions.

Also, as you mention, there is the problem of what are the true measures we need. Prevention of a disease process that probably starts 20-30 years before clinical expression like with Alzheimer's makes it extremely difficult to gain any traction. It is doubtful there will ever be 20 year controlled clinical trials of the kind we are interest in. All we can hope for are treatments of much shorter time frames showing some benefit in compensating for a multi-decade pathological process. Even with cardiac issues, those like me who are not acutely symptomatic but have significant coronary artery calcium deposits have a long lag time between the the most relevant measures (e.g. CAC, CIMT) and have to settle for the murky territory of blood measures and squirrelly genetics. Even those with overt clinical cardiac symptoms can have a long wait before having any sense of an intervention work.

I admire Gundry for what he is attempting to do, but in my mind I am hesitant to file it under evidence-based medicine.

Richard


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