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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:27 am
by Silverlining
Hello all, I'm once again considering orthopedic treatment for long standing joint pain. It's body wide due to hypermobility (faulty collagen issues that I inherited from my mother). Currently, I need to address the low spine area (facets, SI joint area). I've been bed ridden for nine days now and this can't go on. I'm stir crazy with these restrictions and no exercise. I've avoided treatment for years due to indecision on steroid injections which can accelerate my bone density loss, prolotherapy which induces inflammation to theoretically promote healing and/or radio frequency nerve ablation. As a 4/4 I'm CONSTANTLY mindful of any invasive treatment affecting my brain. It's super discouraging as 98 percent of patients seeking treatment will not have these concerns and orthopedic medical personnel get frustrated with patients like me. Anyone have opinions to share? Anyone had labs pulled after prolotherapy to measure inflammation markers? Anyone have definitive opinions on steroids contributing to osteopenia/osteoarthritis? My mom is currently on a fentanyl patch due to degenerative spine issues, severe osteoporosis, and has a leg fracture that has not healed in ten months. I'm 52, she's 71; I don't want to be her in 20 years. Thanks in advance for advice. I recognize we're a brain focused site, but it doesn't hurt ask.

Re: Prolotherapy

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:43 am
by SusanJ

Don't have any answers, but am sending healing energy your way.

Re: Prolotherapy

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:02 am
by KatieS
{{{Silver}}} I can't imagine 9 days of bedrest, plus the fact that lack of load might increase your problem. Finally I submitted to a cortisone knee injection, only to discover I can again hike and be relatively pain-free. Following this injection, my glucose levels have not budged. Of course, cortisone is detrimental to the bone, but one injection to get me moving again, seemed worth the risk. My insurance requires me to have one cortisone injection before they cover the HA knee injections. Spinal cortisone injections seem to have less impressive results and I'm not abrest with prolotherapy results. Doesn't the prolotherapy induce just local inflammation? As to your bone density, my mom has had decades of benefit from fosamax, which she swears helps her back pain. My inclination would be to try an immediate relief, then opt for a sustained medical therapy. I know you're on estrogen replacement with monitored levels already.

Re: Prolotherapy

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:02 am
by Julie G
{{{Silver}}} I don't really have any answers, but I wanted you to know that I care. From what I've read about prolotherapy, it sounds promising. Like Katie, I've also succumbed to a few cortisone injections that did wonders for me.

I've suffered from lifelong pain issues resulting from a connective tissue disorder/mast cell activation that have miraculously resolved on my current protocol. I'll throw a few ideas out there:
-Gluten, dairy, lectins? If you're sensitive, avoiding these can greatly reduce both widespread and localized inflammation. If I know I've going to be exposed to lectins, I take a few glucosamine chondroitin capsules on top of my D-Mannose (for bladder issues) both lectin binders and I can usually avoid the resulting pain issues.
-Fish oil? Balancing Omega-3 and 6s can reduce inflammation. I know you are averse to fish. Checking your Omega-3 index (RBC DHA+EPA) might point you towards an area to improve upon. I think levels above 10% are recommended for our population.
-Curcumin? This was huge for me. Pain and fatigue lifted tremendously. I think rainbows may have come out from the clouds- for real.
-Probiotics? VSL#3 has been a godsend for me. I'm also taking a spore-based probiotic called MEGAsporebiotic.
-Zantac/Zyrtec? I know you also deal with MCA. When those cytokines get stirred up, the Z/Z combo can come to the rescue...but also has anticholinergic properties. The trick (for me) is to use the lowest dose necessary to achieve results.
-Massage. Gently having an experienced healer work the area can keep circulation moving and bring blood flow to the area. I once pulled my gluteus minimus from running. OMG the pain. I could barely walk. I found a terrific female PT who offered tremendous relief via massage.

I'm sending lots of healing energy your way. XO

Re: Prolotherapy

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:10 am
by Stavia
Darling Silver.
One cortisone injection is unlikely to significantly affect your bone density.
Radiofrequency nerve ablation and prolotherapy are also viable options.
You need to sort out the pain honey. The constant pain and worry are also bad for you. Lying in bed in pain in pain and worrying is not a risk free option. There are possible consequences of doing nothing as well.
Love you heaps sister.

Re: Prolotherapy

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:49 am
by Silverlining
Thanks all; it's been a rough two weeks. I ended up on prednisone; never again! No sleep and other harsh side effects, BUT it did significantly reduce the pain and got me out of the bed and stabilized. Julie, surprisingly, according to cronometer, my omega 3:6 ratios are good...shocking to me :). That did not include my nordic naturals fish oil either. My new resolve....I am going to find a masseuse! I think massage plus a committed stretching/strengthening program is going to be the key to aging for me with my problem joints. I'm also looking in depth at the inflammation and attempting to mitigate it. I do take cur curcumin daily; I've always been leery of glucosamine chondroitin due to a sensitive tummy, however I'm putting it back on the table. These are all really good suggestions, not moving is not an option for me; thanks for throwing me lifelines!

Re: Prolotherapy

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:05 am
by Julie G
I've succumbed to steroids on several occasions and completely agree with you. they often take care of whatever, but the side effects are awful- especially lack of sleep. So sorry, but happy that you're back on your feet :D .

Yay on good your Omega-3:6 ratio. I still think it might be helpful to have a baseline Omega-3 Index test. That checks the total level of EPA & DHA in your RBC. Levels above 10% are recommended for us for cognitive and heart health benefits. My guess is that healthy levels will spill over to address any widespread inflammation.

I think massage would be really helpful for an ongoing issue like this. I used a good PT who regularly dealt with running injuries. It helped as much as anything else that I tried. Keep healing. XO