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Caffeine raises ketones even with high-carb breakfast

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:41 am
by apod
This was an interesting article -- perhaps this has something to do with why I was seeing ketones up in the 0.4 - 0.6mmol range between breakfast and dinner while still eating upwards of 200 grams of total carbs / d with IF. I have noticed that dinner usually sees worse glucose disposal / insulin sensitivity.

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2016/12 ... n-old.html

"This is an observation which would suggest that the breakfast coffee could be even more useful for ketogenic dieters who are intermittently fasting, as it would give them a headstart into full-blown ketosis in the time between breakfast and dinner. The observation that caffeine enhances lipolysis and increases blood FFA levels, which in turn provide substrates for ketogenesis ad thus stimulate safe and mild ketonemia in healthy adults to a ketone level twice that seen after an overnight fast, has the authors speculate that regular caffeine consumption may be linked to the decreased risk of developing late-life cognitive decline, as it was observed by Panza, et al. only recently in what is one of the latest reviews on this topic, if not primarily, then at least also because of its effect on ketogenesis."

Re: Caffeine raises ketones even with high-carb breakfast

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:02 pm
by Harrison
Very interesting finding. My intermittent fasting regimen has evolved from strict IF from 8pm to noon to having a 12oz coffee with almond milk, cream, and stevia/sucralose at 8am. I don't measure ketones, but I can say that I lost about 5 pounds vs. no coffee. I found that slightly paradoxical, but maybe this is the mechanism for it.

Re: Caffeine raises ketones even with high-carb breakfast

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:57 pm
by apod
Harrison wrote:sucralose at 8am
:shock: :?

Re: Caffeine raises ketones even with high-carb breakfast

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:08 am
by Harrison
apod wrote:
Harrison wrote:sucralose at 8am
:shock: :?


Could you elaborate your thoughts on the sucralose beyond the emoji :D ? I know there's a lot of bad press around the artificial sweeteners, but I don't seem to have any issues with them.

Re: Caffeine raises ketones even with high-carb breakfast

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:51 pm
by apod
Harrison wrote:
apod wrote:
Harrison wrote:sucralose at 8am
:shock: :?


Could you elaborate your thoughts on the sucralose beyond the emoji :D ? I know there's a lot of bad press around the artificial sweeteners, but I don't seem to have any issues with them.

My concerns for sucralose are primarily the potential (unproven?) metabolic / gut microbiome issues. It's all about the black coffee. :D

I like the idea of using erythritol as a sugar sub (or maybe xylitol.) Although, perhaps these have their own issues. Gregor on NutritionFacts has good things to say about it, and he tends to be pretty picky.

L-Glycine seems like an interesting sweetener... or inositol... or alpha-GPC.. or Inulin+FOS. Someone should mix this up and sell it as a functional sweetener (if it doesn't taste bad.) "Sweet Thoughts."

Re: Caffeine raises ketones even with high-carb breakfast

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:48 am
by Hepoberman
There is an interesting sub-plot here. If we consistently eat in a way that does not overdose our metabolic system with energy, we wake up every morning utilizing some ketone energy. If we add caffeine to the morning mix, cortisol upregulates which upregulates lipolysis, this usually increase serum ffa's enough to upregulate ketone production (there are other mediators).

As long as we are not chronically over eating, we wake with some ketone energy every morning. The many benefits of not eating too much are obvious but tricky part is keeping good thyroid function while remaining slight hypocaloric.