Alternating polyphenol supplements rather than combining

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apod
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Re: Alternating polyphenol supplements rather than combining

Post by apod »

I received some of Dr. Gundry's "Heart Defense" cacao in the mail today. Each scoop includes 100mg of the NeuroFactor coffeefruit extract (which legend has it, boosts BDNF.) In the mix, the coffeefruit seems to add a pleasant mocha richness. I mixed the powder with unsweetened vanilla almond milk and had it over a frozen wild berry mix... black teeth ensued. :D

As opposed to relatively the tame, but high-polyphenol raw unfermented cacao varieties, I tend to associate these sorts of super dark aromatic cacaos with overly alkali-processed dutch chocolate... which tastes great, but at the cost of some flavanols (in particular, (-)-epicatechin, which seems to provide much of the cardiovascular / cognitive benefits associated with dark chocolate... as well as potential increases in muscle mass.) However, further research lead me to the source, Barry Callebaut's "Acticoa," which seems to have some sort of proprietary tech (similar to... or maybe better than cocoavia's?) for retaining a high flavanol content while dialing in the chocolatelyness, certified to contain high EU-standards @ 200mg flavanols per serving. Oddly, Barry Callebaut prevents manufacturers from using their name on the packaging due to some patent regulation issue... looking deeper into it, they've conducted 18 clinical studies on cacao themselves. Interestingly, in this study, the rats lived 11% longer while eating this particular high-polyphenol cacao powder... if I recall, metformin-fed mice only live ~5-6% longer than the placebo-fed mice.

Wikipedia lists Acticoa as containing "higher levels of polyphenol antioxidants (cocoa flavanols) than any other chocolate":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Callebaut#Products

Great stuff, if anyone's looking for a good, albeit expensive, cacao powder.
Sandy57
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Re: Alternating polyphenol supplements rather than combining

Post by Sandy57 »

Using it as well. No major revelations, but nothing negative for me. Sandy is having some issues however with her GI tract, so not sure if this is causing it. Will keep going for a while.

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Re: Alternating polyphenol supplements rather than combining

Post by Gilgamesh »

apod wrote:I reached out to Bill from the Longevinex resveratrol product and asked about his opinion on combining Longevinex with curcumin or other polyphenol supplements in pursuit of additional anti-inflammatory / metabolic health benefits. He recommended keeping to a relatively tame 350mg total polyphenol supplement load, and alternating these supplements rather than combining to avoid possible side effects of anxiety, flu-like symptoms, anemia, etc.
Bill's a smart guy, but my concern (or maybe: my way of expressing his concern) would be about getting into an "over-hormeticized" state, and/or preventing oxidative stress at key points where it appears needed to get benefits from things like exercise. Many of us are taking multiple mTOR inhibitors, SIRTUIN-expression enhancers, polyphenols, PLUS exercising, AND doing CR, AND being in ketosis.

"Yikes," is the reaction of every single experienced researcher whom I've discussed this.

The longest lived lab animals (aside from newer genetically modified ones) are still lab rodents CR'd from youth, eating a reduced quantity of a fairly junky, minimally supplemented (just vits. and minerals) rat chow, and exercising periodically. Almost no polyphenols, resveratrol, etc. And age is the biggest risk factor for Alz., ergo....

I've gone off CR so I try to get some polyphenols in my diet, and inhibit mTOR via ketosis, and exercise after every meal to knock down glucose and tryglycerides. Anything beyond that I'm slowly cutting out of my regimen.
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SusanJ
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Re: Alternating polyphenol supplements rather than combining

Post by SusanJ »

After looking at the fistful of stuff I take, I'm coming to some point about supplements as one of perhaps understanding where your health is at any point in time. Some I take because of known genetic variants that reduce the efficacy of my enzymes, such as TMG to overcome BHMT problems (and lower my homocysteine), or methylated Bs for MTHFR.

But, I've been able to cut way back on the B vitamins after improving my gut health and other pathways. TMG, on the other hand, I can't cut back or homocysteine stays on the high side, and high homocysteine is linked to so many bad outcomes, so that one stays in the stack.

There are times that extra curcumin helps me, when I get flares or during allergy season. But being in my 60s, I also know the reality that amyloid has already beset my brain. Is it better to throw the extra anti-inflammatory power of curcumin at that? How much? That answer is a little more murky.

Perhaps throwing extra "X" (name your favorite supplement) at a health issue is necessary when one's health is less than optimal, and we need to think about reevaluating our supplements regularly, and possibly look at dialing back when the storm has passed so the body can find some equilibrium.

Good discussion!
Orangeblossom
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Re: Alternating polyphenol supplements rather than combining

Post by Orangeblossom »

Interesting discussion. I didn't think berries were 'high in sugar' though. They are considered to be a good low carb option. Some may be a little higher in sugar than others. Raspberries are pretty low, blueberries a bit higher. Bit wouldn't have thought it would be a fruit to limit as much as say, bananas.
apod
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Re: Alternating polyphenol supplements rather than combining

Post by apod »

Orangeblossom wrote:Interesting discussion. I didn't think berries were 'high in sugar' though. They are considered to be a good low carb option. Some may be a little higher in sugar than others. Raspberries are pretty low, blueberries a bit higher. Bit wouldn't have thought it would be a fruit to limit as much as say, bananas.
Cranberries are pretty awesome in this regard -- a couples ounce of fresh cranberries is <5g of net carbs.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... anberries/

I've read that green bananas are relatively low in net (bioavailable) carbs -- not that great a source of polyphenols on their own, but once dipped in pecan butter and dusted with ceylon cinnamon + vanilla bean powder + cacao, you can climb toward the top of the chart.
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Re: Alternating polyphenol supplements rather than combining

Post by circular »

slacker wrote:for those of us still crawling out of the ocean on our fins...
I hope the weather's better on your beach than mine :lol:

Thanks for directing me here Slacker. My sense is that we can't overdo PPs when we get them in food, so I try to emphasize that over PP supplements. In very early forum days I mentioned a book called Eating Wild. It discusses how to increase the antioxidant value of foods and offers numerous tricks; for ex, tear your greens up the day before you eat them and they'll produce more antioxdants along the tears, heat your blueberries to increase their antioxidants, let your chopped garlic sit for 10 minutes before heating or you destroy the cancer protective property in it... I personally think this is likely a better approach than taking a lot of PP supplements. Mind you I've fallen off implementing some of her recommendations, but this discussion will bring me back to it as time allows.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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