newbie w/ MCI confused about how to dig deeper into apoe snps

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newbie w/ MCI confused about how to dig deeper into apoe snps

Postby Syd » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:35 am

Hi there.

I've searched the forums, but didn't see this question out there. I get confused easily, so this question may have been answered. Super sorry if it has. :? I am only 58 and have MCI that is getting worse, and it's frightening. My 23&me results show I'm negative for being predisposed to late onset Alzheimer's, but I've had my MCI for years, so my problems have shown up earlier.

I looked to see if my snps gave any clues, but I'm not sure how to understand then despite major google searching.

My results:

rs429358 is T/T
rs7412 is C/C

So, it looks like the r27412 is e4 and the other is e2, is that right??? Does that equal being e3?? Or is the e4 potentially an issue for me? (I understand epigenetics and that there's no "you have this snp so for sure you'll get x,y, z." But, I'm just trying to understand my predispositions, given my worsening cognitive symptoms.)

Are there snps that indicate a predisposition for EARLY dementia?

Thank you so much. I hope everyone is taking good care.

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Jenny BC
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Re: newbie w/ MCI confused about how to dig deeper into apoe snps

Postby Jenny BC » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:51 am

Syd wrote:Hi there.

I've searched the forums, but didn't see this question out there. I get confused easily, so this question may have been answered. Super sorry if it has. :? I am only 58 and have MCI that is getting worse, and it's frightening. My 23&me results show I'm negative for being predisposed to late onset Alzheimer's, but I've had my MCI for years, so my problems have shown up earlier.
Are there snps that indicate a predisposition for EARLY dementia?
Hi Syd and welcome to the ApoE4.info community! Interpretation of the 23 and me data is an issue for many and it never hurts to ask it again, especially since we are all individuals with individualized data. And I can really appreciate all your hard work in searching for answers to help alleviate some of the fear. That being said, as a new intern here at ApoE4.info, I do not know the answer you're seeking, but I know there are others here that will respond and I will keep an eye out for them. If I don't see a response soon from anyone, I will help you search because I know the info is here somewhere! There are lots of great resources and many terrific members here at ApoE4.info. One resource I can direct you to is the Primer written by a doctor who is herself, ApoE 4/4. It is an introduction to ApoE4 and possible prevention strategies. Also, the How-To Guide can help you navigate the ApoE4.info website. I also think the WIKI may hold some of the answers you are seeking. I wish you all the best in your journey and I will keep an eye out for more specific responses to your question - I can't wait to see them for myself as well!

Warm regards,

Jenny BC
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Re: newbie w/ MCI confused about how to dig deeper into apoe snps

Postby Syd » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:12 am

Thank you so much, Jenny! So lovely.

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Re: newbie w/ MCI confused about how to dig deeper into apoe snps

Postby NF52 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:08 pm

Syd wrote:Hi there.... I am only 58 and have MCI that is getting worse, and it's frightening. My 23&me results show I'm negative for being predisposed to late onset Alzheimer's, but I've had my MCI for years, so my problems have shown up earlier....My results:
rs429358 is T/T
rs7412 is C/C

So, it looks like the r27412 is e4 and the other is e2, is that right??? Does that equal being e3?? Or is the e4 potentially an issue for me? (I understand epigenetics and that there's no "you have this snp so for sure you'll get x,y, z." But, I'm just trying to understand my predispositions, given my worsening cognitive symptoms.)

Are there snps that indicate a predisposition for EARLY dementia?

Thank you so much. I hope everyone is taking good care.
A warm welcome, Syd!

Thank you so much for joining, and for your well wishes for all of us. Don't ever worry about asking questions; it's how we humans are primed to learn! And "reading" Snps is almost never easy, which is why I keep some handy references bookmarked. Here's one I find useful, from SNPedia, which is now owned by Promethease: https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/APOE.

I've taken the liberty of pulling the third row from the bottom of the chart on the table in that link and putting it in a format that our clunky software will show:

ApoE 3/3 = rs429358 T/T and rs7412 C/C : The most common variant
So I think that's why 23&me reports that you are not at increased risk for late-onset Alzheimer's disease: because you don't have any copies of ApoE 4, the most well-studied genetic risk for late-onset Alzheimer's disease.

The term "MCI" or Mild Cognitive Impairment can be used by practitioners who give only a quick screening test such as the MOCA (Montreal Test of Cognitive Assessment) or MMSE (Mini-Mental Status Exam). It doesn't tell us whether this is MCI with Alzheimer's biomarkers of amyloid beta and tau, and Alzheimer's-type MRI and common Alzheimer's impairments such as language, memory for new learning and spatial learning.

MCI can be a stable condition for several years even in people with Alzheimer's brain biomarkers, but it can also be seen in people with vascular (blood vessel) disease, or other health conditions, some of which may respond well to treatment. In addition, there are currently clinical trials of some promising drugs and non-drug treatments for MCI and more coming soon.

If you have not had a full work-up, including MRI and/or PET scan and several different types of neuro-psychological tests recently, you might want to consider a good work-up at a hospital center that specializes in diagnostic study of people with MCI and early Alzheimer's disease. As someone who participated in a clinical trial for people with a high genetic risk of Alzheimers' (I have two copies of ApoE 4/4), I know that my study site's Memory Care Unit also tested people who had concerns like yours. If you have health insurance it would almost certainly cover the cost of the evaluation; if not, these centers often participate in studies of people with MCI that include such work-ups and share lots of the results with participants.

To your question on SNPS that can show a risk for Early-Onset Alzheimer's Disease (EAOD): They do exist, but since your 23& me report didn't show those, it seems less likely you have them. Most people with those genes have a known family history of relatives who developed Alzheimer's in their 40's or 50's.

Researchers are now recognizing a category in between "Early-Onset" and "Late-Onset (over 65) that is sometimes called "Young-Onset Alzheimer's disease". It seems to happen in some people in their 50's, with symptoms that progress much more slowly than those with Early Onset, or for people first diagnosed with the Late-Onset type in their 70's, for example. Often there is no easy explanation for why people with this diagnosis have it happen at a "young" age. I know three wonderful people in that situation, and all have found it helpful to get involved with local support groups for Young-Onset through their local Alzheimer's Association, and all also got involved with clinical trials of drugs that may be approved for this population in the next year or two.

If you are comfortable sharing what the nearest city is to your location, I would be glad to post the name and location of the nearest Alzheimer's Research center that may be able to offer you a full work-up. If you'd prefer, you can also Private Message me. Here's a link to how that works on the forum: Using Private Messages

It is, of course, always a good idea to also use the strategies recommended by Jenny BC above from our Primer. Exercise, a healthy diet, good sleep and balanced nutrients are important. Best to someone to is showing resilience every day!
4/4 and still an optimist!

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Re: newbie w/ MCI confused about how to dig deeper into apoe snps

Postby Syd » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:35 pm

Well, NF52, that was SUCH a helpful response. Thank you soooooo much for your time and wisdom. (My symptoms are severe enough that I can't work and on my bad days, I can't coordinate my body to cook or drive a car and I drop things and bump into things constantly. And aside from the typical dementia symptoms that happen multiple times a day like putting tissue I've just used to blow my nose in a drawer rather than a trash can and poor word retrieval, I feel so derealized - like I'm in a constant waking dream/nightmare, and it impacts my vision, like I have the wrong prescription glasses on. Don't mean to complain, just explaining.) I live in New Mexico.

Having said all that, I realize this forum is just for folks with APOE4, and now I realize my rs7412 gene results don't indicate that, so I don't want to intrude in this space. (I'm going to do the Bredeson program as it seems like it might help.)

Thanks so much again. (You, too, Jenny.) I hope you're taking good care amidst it all.

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Re: newbie w/ MCI confused about how to dig deeper into apoe snps

Postby Jenny BC » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:21 pm

Syd wrote:Well, NF52, that was SUCH a helpful response. Thank you soooooo much for your time and wisdom. (My symptoms are severe enough that I can't work and on my bad days, I can't coordinate my body to cook or drive a car and I drop things and bump into things constantly. And aside from the typical dementia symptoms that happen multiple times a day like putting tissue I've just used to blow my nose in a drawer rather than a trash can and poor word retrieval, I feel so derealized - like I'm in a constant waking dream/nightmare, and it impacts my vision, like I have the wrong prescription glasses on. Don't mean to complain, just explaining.) I live in New Mexico.

Having said all that, I realize this forum is just for folks with APOE4, and now I realize my rs7412 gene results don't indicate that, so I don't want to intrude in this space. (I'm going to do the Bredeson program as it seems like it might help.)

Thanks so much again. (You, too, Jenny.) I hope you're taking good care amidst it all.
This forum IS for you Syd. It's for anyone that is interested in cognitive health for whatever reason. You're a perfect fit. Please stay. I've already learned a number of new things from your post and the response! Thanks for being here and I hope to "see" you around.

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Re: newbie w/ MCI confused about how to dig deeper into apoe snps

Postby Syd » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:01 pm

What a lovely, caring group of people. Makes my heart smile so big! Thank you.

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Re: newbie w/ MCI confused about how to dig deeper into apoe snps

Postby SusanJ » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:17 am

Syd wrote:I am only 58 and have MCI that is getting worse, and it's frightening.


Hi Syd, I can imagine that having those symptoms is frightening! You came to the right place to ask questions and figure out how to move forward.

NF52's advice is spot on to get some basic testing done. It will provide you with information that can be used to tailor your next steps.

I'd also like to ask if you have a family member or friend that could help you on this journey. There are many things you can do with your regular doctor to rule out prediabetes or other treatable conditions that will help your overall health. The Primer is a good place to start for what some of those tests look like and a friend or family member could help you navigate the list.

Dr. Dale Bredesen also has a new book called "The End of Alzheimer's Program" which contains a more comprehensive set of lab tests and actions you could take to improve your health. Again, an extra set of eyes could help you figure out which parts are applicable to your situation.

Hope these ideas can provide a good path forward.

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Re: newbie w/ MCI confused about how to dig deeper into apoe snps

Postby Syd » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:01 am

Thank you so much, SusanJ! I live far from family and they are of the mind that you just "suck it up," so I'm not sure if they'd be muh help anyway. My best friends live in different states, but do have a couple of local friends that I think might help.

I got Bredesen's latest book last week and am reading through it. I don't retain a lot, but if I reread, I retain better. Today I've set aside to get all my ducks in a row to start the KetoFlex 12/3. I've tried keto before and eat far from the SAD, so I don't think it'll be too hard. I'm also going to look over the Primer today, as well.

After interacting with you all in this group, I feel better - like there is a possible path forward. Know that you've all helped me during a scary time, and I really appreciate it. Hope you're taking good care!

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Re: newbie w/ MCI confused about how to dig deeper into apoe snps

Postby notmygenes56 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:59 am

Hello Syd! I just want to point our that not all MCI can be attributed to the APOE 4 gene. Epigenetics is a big factor. One thing that comes to mind and that I have had a personal journey with is exposure to mold. Has your house ever been water damaged or have you been exposed to a water damage building at work? Even new construction is at risk of developing mold since builders often build houses quickly without allowing studs/framing from completely drying from the elements. You would be surprised at how many buildings out there have toxic growths of mold. I belong to a mold forum group on Facebook where so many young people develop MCI and other signs of dementia, but all of it is attributed to mold exposure. I also experienced that and became better once I detoxed the mold and removed myself from the mold exposure. It is a long and costly journey. Just something for you to consider.


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