Magnesium reaction??

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Sherijordan
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Magnesium reaction??

Postby Sherijordan » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:52 am

Hi All,
My mom is just starting on the program. She took her first supplement last night, the magnesium, before bed. She called me this morning very upset. Said she is confused and disoriented, that she feels horrible, like she never has before. She dreamt like crazy and woke up like this. Says she will never take that pill again. IS THIS NORMAL???? I've taken magnesium myself in the past and never felt like that. Could this be a reaction with her prescription drugs? Her Bredesen doc said before we started that there wouldn't be any problem with them. I've reached out to our health care coach and hoping she'll know something. But thought you all might have some direct experience you could share.
Thanks from a very worried daughter...

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Re: Magnesium reaction??

Postby NF52 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:07 am

Sherijordan wrote:Hi All,
My mom is just starting on the program. She took her first supplement last night, the magnesium, before bed. She called me this morning very upset. Said she is confused and disoriented, that she feels horrible, like she never has before. She dreamt like crazy and woke up like this. Says she will never take that pill again. IS THIS NORMAL???? I've taken magnesium myself in the past and never felt like that. Could this be a reaction with her prescription drugs? Her Bredesen doc said before we started that there wouldn't be any problem with them. I've reached out to our health care coach and hoping she'll know something. But thought you all might have some direct experience you could share.
Thanks from a very worried daughter...
Hi, Sherijordan,

Your poor mom, no wonder she's upset and you're worried. A search of side effects of magnesium, including on the NIH website, suggests that they are rare, unless a very high dose is taken, or the individual has other factors such as reduced kidney function or is taking other medications that contain magnesium. Here's a 2018 article in Medical News Today reviewed by a Doctor of Pharmacy that might be helpful, especially if your mother had some of the symptoms reported or is taking one of the forms of magnesium reported as more likely to cause issues.

Can you take too much magnesium?

Is there any chance that your mother accidentally took more than one "dose" last night by mistake? Doing that on an empty stomach before bedtime might have caused problems. I still remember how awful I felt as a kid when my mother misunderstood the directions from the doctor to gradually start me on iron pills for anemia,. Instead of one pill a day she gave me three. I saw a black and orange pinwheel when I looked in the bathroom mirror--not my face!--just before I slowly fainted on the floor for a few seconds. Reducing the dose to one a day for a week, solved both my anemic muscle pain and the Halloween experience!
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Julie G
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Re: Magnesium reaction??

Postby Julie G » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:30 pm

Was it magnesium threonate by any chance? It also made me feel much worse. FWIW, last time I checked, all of the research to support its efficacy was done by the group who created it. As I recall, others here have also chosen to drop it. A search might reveal more.

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Re: Magnesium reaction??

Postby Tincup » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:58 pm

Sherijordan wrote:Hi All,
My mom is just starting on the program. She took her first supplement last night, the magnesium, before bed. She called me this morning very upset. Said she is confused and disoriented, that she feels horrible, like she never has before. She dreamt like crazy and woke up like this. Says she will never take that pill again. IS THIS NORMAL???? I've taken magnesium myself in the past and never felt like that. Could this be a reaction with her prescription drugs? Her Bredesen doc said before we started that there wouldn't be any problem with them. I've reached out to our health care coach and hoping she'll know something. But thought you all might have some direct experience you could share.
Thanks from a very worried daughter...


For what it is worth, I've used high dose magnesium to keep out of afib and my heart in rhythm for ~16 years. I take it to bowel tolerance, which in me is ridiculously high: 4+grams (4,000 mg) elemental, which is 10 times the RDA. I've taken just about every form: oxide, citrate, glycinate, malate, acetate, bicarbonate, chloride, hydroxide and so on. I did take the threonate Julie mentions for a short time, but it was extremely expensive for the quantities I take. I've never experienced anything like you describe. If anything, you might try a different form, the glycinate is considered one of the most bioavailable. Start with a very low dose and then increase, if it is OK.
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Re: Magnesium reaction??

Postby floramaria » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:16 pm

Julie G wrote:Was it magnesium threonate by any chance? It also made me feel much worse. FWIW, last time I checked, all of the research to support its efficacy was done by the group who created it. As I recall, others here have also chosen to drop it. A search might reveal more.
That is very interesting. Thanks for posting this comment. I have missed previous posts about magnesium threonate by people who've dropped it. I have been taking the threonate form of Mg for years even though it is more expensive, since Dr Bredesen recommended it. My impression was that it crossed the blood brain barrier more effectively. In his new book Dr. Bredesen says, "A more neurally bioavailable form of magnesium, magnesium threonate, has been shown to improve cognition in older adults." (pg 222) That is quite an endorsement!
This is the article for related footnote:
Efficacy and Safety of MMFS-01, a Synapse Density Enhancer, for Treating Cognitive Impairment in Older Adults: A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial
and it does mention that the team who wrote the article also is the team that developed Mg threonate. HMMMM.
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Re: Magnesium reaction??

Postby Sherijordan » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:52 pm

Hi all!!
thank you for the replies! As it turns out Mom felt fine a couple of hours later. Her doctor told her to try it another day or two and see how she did, and she hasn't had a problem since. TinCup, my Mom has A-fib, so I will be sure to tell her, and my brothers, what you said. That is a great benefit!
I found myself remembering a similar night, crazy dreams, and waking up disoriented, the first time I slept through the night after having to withdraw from hydrocodone after total knee replacement. I had four nights of not being able to sleep, and when I did finally sleep through the night that's when I had that experience. I wonder if Mom has not been sleeping properly and the magnesium just knocked her out. In any case, fingers crossed. She seems to be tolerating all the supplements now.

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Re: Magnesium reaction??

Postby floramaria » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:03 pm

Sherijordan wrote: As it turns out Mom felt fine a couple of hours later. ...
I found myself remembering a similar night, crazy dreams, and waking up disoriented, the first time I slept through the night after having to withdraw from hydrocodone after total knee replacement. I had four nights of not being able to sleep, and when I did finally sleep through the night that's when I had that experience. I wonder if Mom has not been sleeping properly and the magnesium just knocked her out. In any case, fingers crossed. She seems to be tolerating all the supplements now.
thanks for the update! Glad to hear your mom is doing better and tolerating the supplements!
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Re: Magnesium reaction??

Postby Julie G » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:15 am

That is very interesting. Thanks for posting this comment. I have missed previous posts about magnesium threonate by people who've dropped it. I have been taking the threonate form of Mg for years even though it is more expensive, since Dr Bredesen recommended it. My impression was that it crossed the blood brain barrier more effectively. In his new book Dr. Bredesen says, "A more neurally bioavailable form of magnesium, magnesium threonate, has been shown to improve cognition in older adults." (pg 222) That is quite an endorsement!
This is the article for related footnote:
Efficacy and Safety of MMFS-01, a Synapse Density Enhancer, for Treating Cognitive Impairment in Older Adults: A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial
and it does mention that the team who wrote the article also is the team that developed Mg threonate. HMMMM.

N=1 guides my protocol and certainly doesn't negate others experience, nor published research. I should also have mentioned, that like Tincup, I still take take a pretty hefty dose of magnesium, around 2g, just not MagT because it made things worse for me. IMHO, it's very important to change one strategy or supplement at a time, carefully pay attention to side effects (positive or negative), and adopt what seems to work.
thank you for the replies! As it turns out Mom felt fine a couple of hours later. Her doctor told her to try it another day or two and see how she did, and she hasn't had a problem since.

Awesome news! Please keep us posted on her progress.

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Re: Magnesium reaction??

Postby floramaria » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:30 pm

Julie G wrote:N=1 guides my protocol and certainly doesn't negate others experience, nor published research. I should also have mentioned, that like Tincup, I still take take a pretty hefty dose of magnesium, around 2g, just not MagT because it made things worse for me. IMHO, it's very important to change one strategy or supplement at a time, carefully pay attention to side effects (positive or negative), and adopt what seems to work.
Thanks for the reply, Julie. Yes, I understand that we respond differently to supplements and n=1 is the most reliable source of information on what works! Since I have never had a negative reaction, I will continue to take the Mg threonate, and may also add some other forms. I was only concerned that the link I followed took me to a study in rats, which seemed like thin evidence to me, but searching further, I found more information on Mg Threonate including small RCT's in humans.
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Re: Magnesium reaction??

Postby J11 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:06 pm

Sherijordan,

I want to share our experience with magnesium threonate.
I gave our loved one who had moderate dementia at the time (perhaps a MMSE of ~5-10, and ambulatory) the recommended daily dose of MagT. After about half an hour our loved one walked down the stairs of our home and collapsed. There was absolutely no muscle tone, no eye dilation-- no nothing. We did not know what to do. It made no sense-- magnesium is not supposed to cause a fatal response. It was by far the scariest moment I have ever had in my life. We should have called an ambulance-- we didn't. If our loved one had not survived it would have been murder. It was terrifying. I just did not know what to do.

After 15 minutes, our loved one coughed up some fluid. I suspect this was the magnesium. Over the next hour recovery gradually occurred and everything was returned to normal soon after. We just took everything nice and slow and just stayed on the floor until everything was fine.

When our home care doctor came the next month we described clearly what had happened. We wanted to be completely transparent.

About two weeks later the police came to our house and "arrested" our loved one. The police officers looked very uncomfortable fulfilling their job as it was self-apparent that our loved one was highly well cared for. If they had been to a dementia ward they would have known the truth about how dementia patients are typically care for. The record of government properly caring for vulnerable people has not been encouraging. The polics actually waited an hour with our loved one until we were able to reach the hospital. After about 2 hours the hospital realized that they were in error, and then transferred our loved one over to a ward bed. They likely realized that they would not be in a very strong legal position if they did not do this. About a week later our home care doctor was called to the ward and did not appear overly amused at the reprimand received. Wasting hospital resources is not highly regarded. It took us about two weeks of constant vigilance at the hospital to have our loved one returned to us.

When we went for a visit to a community dementia care facility, we were told by the geriatric psychiatrist that if another such incident occurred that our loved one would be placed into permanent protective custody. We did not want our loved one living at this facility considering the low quality of care that likely would be offered there and never returned.

The entire medical system had coded us as elder abusers.

Yet, it was one of those the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. The community care manager repeatedly told us that we were superb home care givers. We were told on many occasions that the bed sores that our loved one developed as we learned how to provide care typically would never have healed in a community dementia care facilities as noted above. It usually took us only a few days to completely heal bed sores; sometimes the g-tube would open up by accident and this might go an hour or two unnoticed. This can cause a bad sore, though in some nursing home environments this probably could cause a very serious bed sore. Some monitoring technology would be of great help. Some sort of liquid detector and alarm would help. From personal experience, there is really no possible way that high quality care could be provided at 30 to 1 staffing ratios. That level of care is simply treating patients as an object and not as a person. Our loved one received 1:1 24/7 care.


Basically, in typical settings where there would be 1 nurse for 30 severe dementia patients the bed sores that developed often would go necrotic, cause overwhelming pain to the dementia patient and perhaps prove fatal. The home care nurse was clearly disturbed by how poor the quality of care for severe dementia patients is in typical institutionalized care. None of our family had received any formal nursing training, though we unquestionably outperformed professional institutionalized care. Ironically, within minutes of arriving on the hospital ward, our loved one was prescribed an atypical anti-psychotic. These drugs are known to cause fatal side-effects in AD patients. It is difficult to imagine that they could consider providing potentially deadly drugs as better quality of care then we provided at home. We never dosed with anti-psychotics. When we asked a home care doctor about this, they completely rejected the dangers of atypical anti-psychotics. Are there still people who have not heard of something called the internet? Lying is no longer effective when you can simply type in " atypical anti-psychotics Alzheimer's). The largest class action settlement in FDA history arose from advertising of these drugs for the purpose of marketing to AD patients.

The state has such an overwhelming amount of power in such instances that I simply let all of the distortions pass without comment. Yet, perhaps I should have been more aggressive. Virtually everything that they said made no sense, it did not fit the evidence and yet they constructed their own narrative and it was what filtered through the system. This probably would be best to be taken up at a higher level where feedback could be given

The fact that the government allowed the sale of these supplements somewhat weakened their position and their logic. if taking the recommended dosage was unsafe, then does not that open them to the potential of a class action lawsuit for their negligence in regulating the product. Is arresting patients with moderate dementia their way of deflecting their regulatory responsibility? It must be nice to have such power and never have to be held to account or even have to construct a minimally coherent and logical policy.

My take on it is that MagT is a super powerful supplement. I have take a whole range of supplements. For example, I have taken a handful of up to 10 grams of oral vitamin C, I have taken largish doses of vitamin D, etc.. I probably shouldn't but I think of these supplements as essentially candy. I have also taken MagT though I only take the recommended dosage. MagT has been specifically designed to be highly bioavailable. Considering the numerous important biological roles that it plays, perhaps it should be thought of more as a drug than a supplement.

MagT was developed especially to help those with AD. It is possible that AD patients have particular vulnerabilities that need to be considered. For example, our loved one at the moderate stage developed problems with hypotension, and was increasingly unable to eat or drink. Our doctor noted how dry the skin was, though we did not recognize the hint that this would mean dehydration. (Eventually a g-tube corrected this problem). We did not understand the need for the G-tube until an operation was required for its insertion.

For us that one dose of MagT was very difficult. It is the only time that we have experienced a near fatal accident.


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