Hello from CurlySuze

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CurlySuze
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Hello from CurlySuze

Postby CurlySuze » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:04 pm

Hello, all. I have been reading articles from this website for a while, but I'm sort of cautious about joining social groups, so I just lurked for a long time. I am a 64 year old retired teacher. I learned I was APOE4/4 some years ago on 23 and Me, but since no one could give any good advice about what to do about it, I just ignored it and tried not to think about it too much. Then I heard about Dale Bredesen's work, and I started to listening to YouTubes and podcasts regarding his work and reading any articles I could find, including those on this website. When the book The End of Alzheimer's came out, I bought it and devoured it. I found a local Bredesen-trained functional physician and started seeing him. Besides doing basic blood tests, he did an organic acids test, which revealed possible gut problems. A Genova GI Effects test revealed dysbiosis and a possible borderline yeast infection, although I had virtually no symptoms (only the need for magnesium citrate for regularity).

Prior to working with my new doctor, I followed a Paleo + yogurt, butter, and cheese diet with minimal processed foods. I didn't worry too much about saturated fat back then. My blood sugar wasn't great – my A1c and blood glucose were in the low prediabetic range. I was not overweight, but had about 5 lbs that could have come off. My previous doctor (also a functional medicine physician) wasn't too worried that my lipids were pretty high since I am a female.

Once I got the dysbiosis diagnosis, I went on a low fodmap, low fiber, paleo elimination diet. I stayed on the diet for 3 months – it was miserable. I lost a lot of weight – too much – and my bowel habits (formerly on the sluggish side, but usually regular) became highly irregular. However, my blood sugar finally came down to ideal levels. And my energy levels soared, even though I was way too skinny. But my lipids, which were already too high, shot up from 275 to 332. In addition, I was unable to continue the part of the diet where you added foods back in. That would have resulted in another 5 – 10 pound weight loss, and I just couldn't sustain that.

I quit the elimination diet entirely, and started doing my own version of the mostly pescatarian somewhat vegan diet recommended by Dr. Bredesen and Dr. Gundry. I almost immediately starting putting on weight (which I needed to recover), but my blood sugar came up 5 – 10 points, my sleep deteriorated, and my energy plummeted. I'm currently having two green smoothies per day, a large bowl of cooked veggies (cruciferous and other vegetables), a large salad, and some kind of protein – either fish (2x per week), pumpkin seed protein, hemp protein, pastured beef collagen (not a complete protein), and seed mush (flax seed meal, hemp seed, coconut flakes). I am allergic to both egg white and yolk, so eggs are out. I plan to continue this diet until I have another blood test to see what changed, if anything.

Neither the paleo or pescatarian diet has hit the right mark for me. I understand that dietary recommendations are not universally agreed upon in the APOE4 world. Gundry's aversion to certain new world foods but not others, leaves me scratching my head completely... I feel certain that there's going to be a lot of variation as to what works from one person to the next. I'm wondering if anyone has figured out a way to parse this out. Has anyone used a Freestyle libre to monitor their blood sugar reactions to food, plus blood chemistry tests in order to find their perfect diet? I'd be interested in their methodology. I just know I can't go on another three month elimination diet, even though my physician says it takes that long to completely remove all the potentially offending food antigens.

Sorry for the long, drawn-out post. I welcome anyone's thoughts.

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Re: Hello from CurlySuze

Postby Sara » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:57 pm

Hi CurlySuze,

A warm welcome to the apoe4.info site and thank you for sharing your story with us! First things first, we have some resources that you may find informative and they include a Primer written and designed by Stavia, a physician, member and E4/E4; a page designed to help you navigate this site "How-To.22_Get_the_most_out_of_the_ApoE4.info_website"; and the general directory ""Wiki".

You have taken some phenomenal steps in identifying and addressing your apoe4 status and nutritional needs - particularly as they relate to your weight, energy and blood chemistry. You mention that you are working with a physician? May I inquire as to the physician's area of specialization? I am sure there are many on this site who will contribute to your search for answers, particularly in regard to diet and blood sugar reactions.
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Re: Hello from CurlySuze

Postby CurlySuze » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:13 pm

Sara, thank you for the information. To answer your question, my current doctor is a family practitioner M.D. with a credential in functional medicine as well as having taken the Bredesen training. He's an APOE3/4 himself, and therefore has a vested interest in this topic. My former doctor is in the same practice - he is a functional medicine M.D. who originally practiced as a gastroenterologist (now practicing as an anti-aging doctor), and is considered to be a pioneer of functional medicine in my state. The two consult with each other all the time. I switched to my current Doctor because he chose to specialize more in Alzheimer's prevention.

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Re: Hello from CurlySuze

Postby GLS18 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:22 pm

CurlySuze wrote:Hello, all. I have been reading articles from this website for a while, but I'm sort of cautious about joining social groups, so I just lurked for a long time. I am a 64 year old retired teacher. I learned I was APOE4/4 some years ago on 23 and Me, but since no one could give any good advice about what to do about it, I just ignored it and tried not to think about it too much. Then I heard about Dale Bredesen's work, and I started to listening to YouTubes and podcasts regarding his work and reading any articles I could find, including those on this website. When the book The End of Alzheimer's came out, I bought it and devoured it. I found a local Bredesen-trained functional physician and started seeing him. Besides doing basic blood tests, he did an organic acids test, which revealed possible gut problems. A Genova GI Effects test revealed dysbiosis and a possible borderline yeast infection, although I had virtually no symptoms (only the need for magnesium citrate for regularity).

Prior to working with my new doctor, I followed a Paleo + yogurt, butter, and cheese diet with minimal processed foods. I didn't worry too much about saturated fat back then. My blood sugar wasn't great – my A1c and blood glucose were in the low prediabetic range. I was not overweight, but had about 5 lbs that could have come off. My previous doctor (also a functional medicine physician) wasn't too worried that my lipids were pretty high since I am a female.

Once I got the dysbiosis diagnosis, I went on a low fodmap, low fiber, paleo elimination diet. I stayed on the diet for 3 months – it was miserable. I lost a lot of weight – too much – and my bowel habits (formerly on the sluggish side, but usually regular) became highly irregular. However, my blood sugar finally came down to ideal levels. And my energy levels soared, even though I was way too skinny. But my lipids, which were already too high, shot up from 275 to 332. In addition, I was unable to continue the part of the diet where you added foods back in. That would have resulted in another 5 – 10 pound weight loss, and I just couldn't sustain that.

I quit the elimination diet entirely, and started doing my own version of the mostly pescatarian somewhat vegan diet recommended by Dr. Bredesen and Dr. Gundry. I almost immediately starting putting on weight (which I needed to recover), but my blood sugar came up 5 – 10 points, my sleep deteriorated, and my energy plummeted. I'm currently having two green smoothies per day, a large bowl of cooked veggies (cruciferous and other vegetables), a large salad, and some kind of protein – either fish (2x per week), pumpkin seed protein, hemp protein, pastured beef collagen (not a complete protein), and seed mush (flax seed meal, hemp seed, coconut flakes). I am allergic to both egg white and yolk, so eggs are out. I plan to continue this diet until I have another blood test to see what changed, if anything.

Neither the paleo or pescatarian diet has hit the right mark for me. I understand that dietary recommendations are not universally agreed upon in the APOE4 world. Gundry's aversion to certain new world foods but not others, leaves me scratching my head completely... I feel certain that there's going to be a lot of variation as to what works from one person to the next. I'm wondering if anyone has figured out a way to parse this out. Has anyone used a Freestyle libre to monitor their blood sugar reactions to food, plus blood chemistry tests in order to find their perfect diet? I'd be interested in their methodology. I just know I can't go on another three month elimination diet, even though my physician says it takes that long to completely remove all the potentially offending food antigens.

Sorry for the long, drawn-out post. I welcome anyone's thoughts.


Hi Curly Suze,

A very warm welcome to our community! I appreciate your bravery in posting to this forum and your dedication to finding the best dietary approach that will be healing and sustaining.

You are not alone in finding a low FODMAP elimination diet challenging or experimenting with foods to understand what is most nourishing for your unique body and brain, while maintaining your quality of life. Trusting your instincts on what feels right for your health and wellness is critical, as you are the expert on your body. Step by step, you will find what works best for you. In addition to the wonderful feedback our members offer on the site, there are many valuable resources that can support your journey. As Sara mentioned, the Primer delves into many areas, including a review of several approaches to diet and lifestyle. The How To Get The Most Out Of The ApoE4.Info Website is a brilliant guide that can help you to refine your searches and find information on what is most relevant to you.

It is wonderful to hear that you are working with a Bredesen trained Functional Medicine practitioner. Please keep us posted and let us know what is working for you. Looking forward to your continued contributions and wishing you all the best!

Again, a warm welcome:)
Gina
Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach
Reversing Cognitive Decline For Coaches Certification Candidate, Fall 2018
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." - Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: Hello from CurlySuze

Postby cdamaden » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:59 pm

CurlySuze - when you went to a paleo elimination diet, did you start eating red meat? I noticed that you were eating dairy products in your first diet too. The reason I ask is that several of us on this board experience elevated lipids when eating saturated fats (it's not yet clear to me whether plant based saturated fats have the same effect on lipids (or outcome)). As to the elevated blood sugar, have you experimented with intermittent fasting? Do you have a home blood glucose monitor? If you did, then you could start identifying food in your diet that gives you an excursion - for instance potatoes, rice, sweet potatoes, parsnips, etc. As to to the duration of an elimination diet, I have found that if you have a big offender then you can get feedback in a few days to a week. Perhaps you can do one week eliminations as a trial basis.
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Re: Hello from CurlySuze

Postby mike » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:35 pm

CurlySuze wrote:Hello, all.


Hi CurlySuze, and welcome. The one thing that most folks here seem consistent on diet-wise is Low Carb. Most are probably following a low protein, high fat diet. I'm doing one higher in protein and moderate in fat. Most here also seem to get their protein mostly vegetarian with some sea food. I'm getting mine mostly via land animal. Many are trying to reach a low state of ketosis to reduce insulin resistance and blood sugars. Use this site to sift through the wealth of information here and talk to folks to come up with a plan for yourself.
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Re: Hello from CurlySuze

Postby CurlySuze » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:07 pm

Thanks for the information Mike. That is basically what I'm doing, but my blood sugar is still out of bounds and my lipids are really high. Yet, I'm not overweight. In fact, by today's standards I'm "skinny." And not skinny fat, either. I can deadlift my body weight off the ground, have good muscle tone, etc. I'm going to get a Freestyle Libre 14 and keep a food diary while wearing it to see if I can figure out if any particular foods are contributing to the blood sugar issue. It's discouraging that I felt absolutely fine before being diagnosed with a gut problem, and that nothing I've tried (Autoimmune paleo, Gundry, Bredesen style ketoflex) have given me any relief - in fact I feel worse. I'm beginning to think that working on the gut is NOT the most important thing to be doing right now. I know my methylation is poor and I've had low white blood cells for about five years. I'm wondering if I have a hidden infection(s) plus poor detox that are keeping me from making any progress. So hard to figure this out! The simple and sensible suggestions simply don't work in my case.

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Re: Hello from CurlySuze

Postby circular » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:31 pm

CurlySuze wrote:It's discouraging that I felt absolutely fine before being diagnosed with a gut problem, and that nothing I've tried (Autoimmune paleo, Gundry, Bredesen style ketoflex) have given me any relief - in fact I feel worse. I'm beginning to think that working on the gut is NOT the most important thing to be doing right now.

I’m not an expert, but I’m somewhat skeptical of some of the testing going on. I don’t know anything about the Genova GI product, but the website indicates it’s for people with GI symptoms. So for starters, since you were feeling fine, I’m not sure but that this is just over testing in your case. I also can’t help but think about an article I read, a couple years ago?, that was about two other companies coming up with different bacteria profiles for the same stool sample. Again, the test may be legit, I don’t know, but I wouldn’t rule out considering that it may not be as simple as advertised, especially given your experience.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Hello from CurlySuze

Postby mike » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:25 am

CurlySuze wrote:It's discouraging that I felt absolutely fine before being diagnosed with a gut problem, and that nothing I've tried (Autoimmune paleo, Gundry, Bredesen style ketoflex) have given me any relief - in fact I feel worse. I'm beginning to think that working on the gut is NOT the most important thing to be doing right now. I know my methylation is poor and I've had low white blood cells for about five years. I'm wondering if I have a hidden infection(s) plus poor detox that are keeping me from making any progress. So hard to figure this out! The simple and sensible suggestions simply don't work in my case.


CurlySuze, like circular, I'm also a skeptic. There is too much push from big pharma and big food to hide certain findings and push out bogus findings. Don't eat fat, instead eat non-fat with a bunch of carbs added. Salt is bad for you. Don't eat eggs due to cholesterol. etc. What actual symptoms were you having before you changed your diet? Sounds like your blood sugars were a bit high as was your cholesterol, but you were feeling okay? No mental decline? If your blood results don't improve this next time, I would go back to a diet where you felt good. There is more evidence that we need more protein as we get older, so don't be afraid of adding a bit more - might help your gut. And I also do not accept that we ApoE4s are not supposed to eat animal protein - that is exactly what my Neanderthal ancestors in Northern Europe did eat, and I think that is where I'm getting my ApoE4 from. There is also evidence that restricting the time that you eat to a smaller window can help lower both sugars and cholesterol, regardless of the diet. You don't need to reduce your calories, just try to stop eating after an early dinner, and then don't eat anything until the morning - fasting at least 12 hours, and letting your body have time to digest before sleep. Cream in your coffee counts as eating / breaking your fast. Once there, gradually increasing fasting time should improve things further. I've been living with Diabetes for 20 years, and the "simple and sensible suggestions" have never worked in my case. For me, the most critical thing has been to eliminate carbs, as best I can. Try to get below 50 gr / day.
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