Intermittent Fasting

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Josiah
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Re: Intermittent Fasting

Postby Josiah » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:41 pm

MarcR wrote:I IF is magical for me because it is cure, prevention, and confirmation all in one.


Very nicely stated Marc
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Re: Intermittent Fasting

Postby BeKindToYourMind » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:52 pm

Josiah wrote:I've been trying to maintain a 17/7 IF which sometimes slips back to a 16/8. My health coach thinks 14/10 is the IF "sweet spot". Everything I've read suggests the longer the fast the better so long as it's coordinated with your circadian rhythm and ends three hours before you go to bed. If I got my diet trip running very smoothly I could imagine trying 20/4. I might do it if I could figure out which supplements I could take during the fasting window without degrading the quality of the fast.


I recently watched some youtube videos by a fitness trainer, Thomas DeLauer, about fasting . He says that fat soluble vitamins break a fast. In supplement form, they're always contained in oil of some sort, which has calories and breaks a fast. I think Magnesium was ok during fasting. He also recommends consuming salt during a fast. Branched chain amino acids also break a fast. I recommend checking out his videos if you have a chance.

This is the one about what you can/cannot eat during a fast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gytioR19Qo

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Re: Intermittent Fasting

Postby Thorlox » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:09 am

From what I've heard and read anything that has calories will break the fast and alter the circadian rhythm. Only water and black coffee do not.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting

Postby TheresaB » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:07 am

Thorlox wrote:From what I've heard and read anything that has calories will break the fast and alter the circadian rhythm. Only water and black coffee do not.


Correct. Technically ANYTHING, arguably even water, can be considered breaking a fast and effecting the circadium rhythm. I've said this many times before, but you're new here, so I'll reiterate, to what extent a person wants to remain "pure" in their fast depends on what they're trying to accomplish.

I noticed in your other post in another thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=557&start=120#p66036 you said "I find that low sugar, regular exercise, and sleep are the only constants." I grit my teeth a little bit because you forgot insulin. Granted there's a huge connection between keeping blood sugar levels low and having low insulin levels, and why we focus on blood sugar/blood glucose is likely (1) it can be tested easily with a glucometer, there are no home insulin meters and (2) there are drugs (good bad or indifferent) that can be sold which can aid in controlling blood sugar level. But in my opinion, it's really insulin, and maintaining healthy insulin sensitivity, that is such a critical important factor.

So unless you're fasting for therapeutic reasons, such as in the treatment of cancer, I think there's a little more wiggle room. In Dr Jason Fung and Jimmy Moore's book "The Complete Guide to Fasting" they talk about allowing a little fat in a person's morning coffee because the insulin response is so minimal and because this can often aid in helping extend the period of the fast.

So you can be very puritanical or not, depending on your fasting objective. There is no fasting police.
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Re: Intermittent Fasting

Postby dlerner » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:44 pm

Appreciate all the insight. Not sure who mentioned it but why the need to start fast 3 hours before bedtime? Also, someone said coffee and water were “ok”. What about tea?
Sorry to be uninformed but what does circadian rhythm have to do with it?

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Re: Intermittent Fasting

Postby SamNZ » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:19 pm

dlerner wrote:Appreciate all the insight. Not sure who mentioned it but why the need to start fast 3 hours before bedtime? Also, someone said coffee and water were “ok”. What about tea?
Sorry to be uninformed but what does circadian rhythm have to do with it?

I think tea, black green or herbal are all ok as long as there is no milk or sweetener.
As far as the 3 hours before bed, this is to allow all the food to be digested (8 hours normally) and so the body can really focus on some intensive cleaning out of its damaged parts. Damaged cells still in situ are useless, the body cant recognise whether a damaged or healthy cell is located in a particular spot. If digestion is all done over night the body can seek out these damaged cells and remove them. This leaves a space which the body recognises and then will regenerate new cells to fill that spot. Whilst digestion is still being prioritised this is not done nearly as well,
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Re: Intermittent Fasting

Postby Tincup » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:19 am

I do 22:2. I've done this since June 2015. I'd been keto adapted since 2009 and skipping lunch since about 2010, so well adapted before I tried longer IF. I've also done many extended fasts..

While eating later in the day is what I do. Optimal is likely skipping dinner as lot of "clean up" happens during sleep and having the digestive tract completely empty optimizes this.
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Re: Intermittent Fasting

Postby mike » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:58 am

TheresaB wrote:So unless you're fasting for therapeutic reasons, such as in the treatment of cancer, I think there's a little more wiggle room. In Dr Jason Fung and Jimmy Moore's book "The Complete Guide to Fasting" they talk about allowing a little fat in a person's morning coffee because the insulin response is so minimal and because this can often aid in helping extend the period of the fast.

I was wondering about just this point, whether whole cream in morning coffee with 0 carbs would really break your morning fast - yes it has calories, but it is all fat so it seems like it would prime the ketone energy path for your day. If the glucose energy path is still fasting, seems like that would count for a lot... My wife has started doing more serious IF, and I was thinking I would as well, but it would be easier with my cream!
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Re: Intermittent Fasting

Postby CanadianNB » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:54 am

mike wrote:
TheresaB wrote:So unless you're fasting for therapeutic reasons, such as in the treatment of cancer, I think there's a little more wiggle room. In Dr Jason Fung and Jimmy Moore's book "The Complete Guide to Fasting" they talk about allowing a little fat in a person's morning coffee because the insulin response is so minimal and because this can often aid in helping extend the period of the fast.

I was wondering about just this point, whether whole cream in morning coffee with 0 carbs would really break your morning fast - yes it has calories, but it is all fat so it seems like it would prime the ketone energy path for your day. If the glucose energy path is still fasting, seems like that would count for a lot... My wife has started doing more serious IF, and I was thinking I would as well, but it would be easier with my cream!


Dr. Fung has said he takes heavy cream in his coffee when he fasts. [url] https://www.dietdoctor.com/can-use-cream-coffee-fasting
[/url]

I started 36 hour fasts a few weeks ago. I would eat a normal meal on Sunday night and not eat again until Tuesday morning. However, after a few weeks I decided to start my fasting day, Monday, with a big thermos of coffee and heavy cream. That kept me feeling full until after lunch. Also, it made me much more happy to start my fast, because I adore coffee with cream. With this approach, I was able to extend my fasts until the next day past lunch.
Here for my husband (65 yrs) and my daughter (14 yrs). Both are AOPE 3/4 and MTHFR T/T. My daughter is insulin resistant and my husband is Type 2 diabetic for 25 yrs. We are working on reversing this with keto diet and IF. I'm Canadian but live in the US.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting

Postby Tincup » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:22 pm

mike wrote:I was wondering about just this point, whether whole cream in morning coffee with 0 carbs would really break your morning fast - yes it has calories, but it is all fat so it seems like it would prime the ketone energy path for your day. If the glucose energy path is still fasting, seems like that would count for a lot...


Depends on your objective. Circadian Rhythm researcher Satchin Panda would say that starts your circadian clock (anything with calories will do so). I'm not saying this is bad, and Dr. Fung comments "there are no fasting police."

Likely more autophagy without the fat, but if it helps lengthen the fast, probably a good thing, in my opinion.
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