Wading further into the e4/e4 swamp...

[IForgot]

Hello all,
After all of 3 weeks here, I'm feeling like an "old timer". Well, I got the results back from my 10 vials of Type O- blood donation to Labcorp and with a few exceptions, they look pretty good. For those that missed my mini disease autobiography, about 10 years ago I had Menieres Disease. It's an idiopathic syndrome, however, the widely agreed approach to "cure" is to eat healthy, exercise and lower blood sugar. Sound familiar? So, I had a head start on the protocol recommendations of Dr. Bredesen.

Anyway, back the results and why I'm posting. I had only three outliers to Dr. Bredesen's rather strident lab values, of which, the first two are low hanging fruit. One, was for Homocysteine at 10.0; Two, was Omega 6/3 ratio and the other was DHEA-S, which was 74.3 ug/dL vs the Dr. Bredesen's values of 400-500ug/dL. My value is right in the middle of the Labcorp range. Further reading revealed the following typical normal ranges for males:

Ages 18 to 19: 108 to 441 µg/dL or 2.92 to 11.91 µmol/L
Ages 20 to 29: 280 to 640 µg/dL or 7.56 to 17.28 µmol/L
Ages 30 to 39: 120 to 520 µg/dL or 3.24 to 14.04 µmol/L
Ages 40 to 49: 95 to 530 µg/dL or 2.56 to 14.31 µmol/L
Ages 50 to 59: 70 to 310 µg/dL or 1.89 to 8.37 µmol/L
Ages 60 to 69: 42 to 290 µg/dL or 1.13 to 7.83 µmol/L
Ages 69 and older: 28 to 175 µg/dL or 0.76 to 4.72 µmol/L

As you can see, DHEA-S goes down dramatically with age and Bredesen's numbers are high, even for an 18 year old. I'm looking for comments both on the values and the importance of this lab test...cuz I also found this from PubMed...

Abstract
OBJECTIVES AND METHODS:
We investigated the association of serum dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEA-S) levels with dementia of Alzheimer's type (DAT) and impairment in selected cognitive domains (memory, language, attention and working memory) in 158 patients (75.5+/-6.7 years, 46 men) with first-diagnosed probable DAT and in 158 age- and sex-matched controls. As secondary goal, we evaluated whether DHEA-S baseline levels were associated with cumulative 6-year mortality.

RESULTS:
A negative correlation between DHEA-S levels and age was observed (R=-0.25, p<0.001). Age-stratified analysis did not show significant differences of DHEA-S levels between DAT patients and controls. No significant association was found between DHEA-S levels and impairment in selected cognitive domains. Cox regression analysis showed that baseline DHEA-S levels were not associated with cumulative 6-year mortality.

CONCLUSIONS:
In a sample of newly-diagnosed DAT patients, we did not find significant association between presence of DAT or impairment in cognitive domains and DHEA-S levels; baseline DHEA-S levels are not associated with cumulative mortality in patients and controls.

[NF52]

Hello all,
After all of 3 weeks here, I'm feeling like an "old timer". Well, I got the results back from my 10 vials of Type O- blood donation to Labcorp and with a few exceptions, they look pretty good. ...I had only three outliers to Dr. Bredesen's rather strident lab values, of which, the first two are low hanging fruit. One, was for Homocysteine at 10.0; Two, was Omega 6/3 ratio and the other was DHEA-S, which was 74.3 ug/dL vs the Dr. Bredesen's values of 400-500ug/dL. My value is right in the middle of the Labcorp range. Further reading revealed the following typical normal ranges for males:
... Ages 69 and older: 28 to 175 µg/dL or 0.76 to 4.72 µmol/L
As you can see, DHEA-S goes down dramatically with age and Bredesen's numbers are high, even for an 18 year old. I'm looking for comments both on the values and the importance of this lab test...cuz I also found this from PubMed...

HI IForgot!

I'm glad you're feeling like an "old timer"! With 13 posts that have been viewed hundreds of times you are no longer a "newbie"! So here's a few links that might be helpful. The first seems pretty reputable and also readable--sometimes a rare combination! Homocysteine and Dementia: An International Consensus Statement
It suggests supplementing with Vitamin B-12 for high homocsysteine.

Anecdotally, while in a clinical trial for healthy people with ApoE 4/4 ages 60-75, I was asked to add 500 mcg/day of methylcobalamin to increase my B-12 level to above 500. (It was in the low 400's). My homocysteine has not been a problem, but adding the B-12 got me to the mid=600's within 6 months and stayed there. I have just suggested that my sister switch to methylcobalamin for B-12, since she told me she was taking shots of 9000 mcg/month of cyanocobalamin without a similar effect. I believe Dr. Bredesen's recommendation is to add .8-5 mg of methylfolate if homocysteine is above 6.

Your Pub Med quote seems pretty reasonable--but since I'm not qualified to really judge that, this section of the WIKI is a good guide to Omega 3 and 6 and DHA: Fats, Omega -3 & -6, DHA and More

Enjoy those good results! At age 69+, you are proving the doomsayers of some articles wrong every day!

[IForgot]

Hello all,
After all of 3 weeks here, I'm feeling like an "old timer". Well, I got the results back from my 10 vials of Type O- blood donation to Labcorp and with a few exceptions, they look pretty good. ...I had only three outliers to Dr. Bredesen's rather strident lab values, of which, the first two are low hanging fruit. One, was for Homocysteine at 10.0; Two, was Omega 6/3 ratio and the other was DHEA-S, which was 74.3 ug/dL vs the Dr. Bredesen's values of 400-500ug/dL. My value is right in the middle of the Labcorp range. Further reading revealed the following typical normal ranges for males:
... Ages 69 and older: 28 to 175 µg/dL or 0.76 to 4.72 µmol/L
As you can see, DHEA-S goes down dramatically with age and Bredesen's numbers are high, even for an 18 year old. I'm looking for comments both on the values and the importance of this lab test...cuz I also found this from PubMed...

HI IForgot!

I'm glad you're feeling like an "old timer"! With 13 posts that have been viewed hundreds of times you are no longer a "newbie"! So here's a few links that might be helpful. The first seems pretty reputable and also readable--sometimes a rare combination! Homocysteine and Dementia: An International Consensus Statement
It suggests supplementing with Vitamin B-12 for high homocsysteine.

Anecdotally, while in a clinical trial for healthy people with ApoE 4/4 ages 60-75, I was asked to add 500 mcg/day of methylcobalamin to increase my B-12 level to above 500. (It was in the low 400's). My homocysteine has not been a problem, but adding the B-12 got me to the mid=600's within 6 months and stayed there. I have just suggested that my sister switch to methylcobalamin for B-12, since she told me she was taking shots of 9000 mcg/month of cyanocobalamin without a similar effect. I believe Dr. Bredesen's recommendation is to add .8-5 mg of methylfolate if homocysteine is above 6.

Your Pub Med quote seems pretty reasonable--but since I'm not qualified to really judge that, this section of the WIKI is a good guide to Omega 3 and 6 and DHA: Fats, Omega -3 & -6, DHA and More

Enjoy those good results! At age 69+, you are proving the doomsayers of some articles wrong every day!

Hi NF52,

It's always nice to hear from you. I guess I wasn't clear. When I said the first two out of nominal lab results were low hanging fruit, I meant they are easy to correct and I'm doing so. However, the DHEA-S has me puzzled. Dr. Bredesen's recommended numbers are way out of line with anything I can find on-line. Further more, at least one study concludes there is NO correlation between DHEA-S levels and cognitive decline. I was asking specifically about this later out of spec. result and its significance.
Best regards,
Steven

[Vikingman]

I am surprised no has answered your question on this forum seeing your are a newbie. Seems like an excellent question for those that have been on board for a long time. I have been here 3 weeks too as a 4/4 and I will wade into the swamp with you. Unlike you I am just starting to exercise after 12 years of being sedentary. Lots of great info on this forum. I also liked the Facebook page for APOE4 and it is good to get the latest updates on research and articles.

[slacker]

I am surprised no has answered your question on this forum seeing your are a newbie.

Hi guys;

If no one on the site answers a question, from a new member or not, it means that no one knows, or those that know (or have theories) didn't see the question embedded in your post.

You can always use the search function (magnifying glass right upper toolbar). There is a earlier conversation discussing Bredesen's DHEA recommendation.

AND/OR...
It can help to start a new topic /thread with a subject that clearly states your area of interest. This kind of post is more likely to make your question more visible to other members.

[IForgot]

I am surprised no has answered your question on this forum seeing your are a newbie.

Hi guys;

If no one on the site answers a question, from a new member or not, it means that no one knows, or those that know (or have theories) didn't see the question embedded in your post.

You can always use the search function (magnifying glass right upper toolbar). There is a earlier conversation discussing Bredesen's DHEA recommendation.

AND/OR...
It can help to start a new topic /thread with a subject that clearly states your area of interest. This kind of post is more likely to make your question more visible to other members.

Hello all,
I did use search and came up short. I can certainly start a new thread but I've moved on from DHEA-S as being a kill shot for OldTimer's. I've focused on exercise, low Homocysteine, low Cholesterol, low glucose/HbA1c and brain training. Achieving this, more or less, with a Peleo diet. Oh yah, Omega 6/3 ratio. Don't bother with Omega 6, we get way too much of that already. Stick to Omega 3 and watch your DHA vs EPA ratio. I'm using processed fish oil with a higher DHA. One more aha, keep your BMI at 21, if you can.
Good luck to all! Mr. Toad's Wild Ride is one heck of a ride!

[Vikingman]

Wow....I was 172 and skinny as a Jr. in High School . I have a ways to go to hit 21 BMI. Enjoy the ride Mr. Toad!

[IForgot]

Wow....I was 172 and skinny as a Jr. in High School . I have a ways to go to hit 21 BMI. Enjoy the ride Mr. Toad!

Lol! Yep, I'm "trim" but not yet at high school weight or college weight during finals season! No one's cooking a lean Toad!!!

[IForgot]

I am surprised no has answered your question on this forum seeing your are a newbie.

Hi guys;

If no one on the site answers a question, from a new member or not, it means that no one knows, or those that know (or have theories) didn't see the question embedded in your post.

You can always use the search function (magnifying glass right upper toolbar). There is a earlier conversation discussing Bredesen's DHEA recommendation.

AND/OR...
It can help to start a new topic /thread with a subject that clearly states your area of interest. This kind of post is more likely to make your question more visible to other members.

The referenced "conversation" does not answer the question with any supportive data. In fact, trained doctors deviate from the Bredesen recommended super high number, which is why I ignored that reference. For the whole re-code protocol, I'd like to see more conclusive and evidential data showing correlation between the protocol and the onset of Alzheimers. That said, there are universally supported optimal levels for many lab values and health. As I said in one of my first posts, the Bredesen protocol is not far off at all from the Diabetes and Meniere's protocols.

[Tincup]

the other was DHEA-S, which was 74.3 ug/dL vs the Dr. Bredesen's values of 400-500ug/dL.

I just checked my labs from Feb 2019. It was 534 and 458 six months earlier on a Salveo lab test ordered by Dr. Gundry. I was 63 at the time, now 64 (I'm male). This result was out of range high on the printout as <457 was in range. I don't recall Gundry ever commenting on DHEA-S. He does have me on 50 mg/day of DHEA and 100 mg/day of pregnenolone.

We've posted most of our labs and transcripts of consults with Gundry here.. Never posted the Feb results as have been busy helping take care of a family member with cancer and it hasn't been a priority.

{edit} I went back and checked. I looked to see if I had a value before I started taking DHEA (pregnenolone was later). He didn't test for it on us back then.