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Did you ever witness objective results of the Bredesen protocol?

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Walnut
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Did you ever witness objective results of the Bredesen protocol?

Postby Walnut » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:14 am

Hello everyone!

I'm new to the board but this is not about me, it's about my dad. Both his father and his uncle suffered from Alzheimer's. My grandpa died at 84 one night, 8 years after he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, quite suddenly and from an unrelated thing. His brother, however, died after becoming completely consumed by it over a decade.

My dad is now 66 and I've been noticing he's gotten quite forgetful over the years. It's been about 5-6 years since I started noticing. He still lives normally, but now his forgetfulness has gotten to the point where he sometimes can't discern whether a thing happened yesterday or earlier in the day. I notice he has trouble learning new things. In the evening, he often waits for my mom to answer a question first (such as what did they have for lunch) and then I see an :idea: moment in his face as if he suddenly remembered it, or if she's not present, it takes him a really long time to remember. His cognitive abilities are just not as I remember him from my childhood.

I read Dale Bredesen's book and it has given me so much hope. But I'm really wary and scared of being hopeful about him getting better only to slowly realize it's not helping.

Since I'm skeptical by nature of people's motives, I can't but worry that Dr. Bredesen is in it mainly for the money. No doubt selling the book and giving practitioners over the world a lease on the protocol is very lucrative. His advice is reasonable, there's not much in there that can cause adverse effects - if anything, it will make one healthier overall - but I can't help not to be doubtful when I read his anonymous patients' testimonies in the book. How come not a single person came out and said "look at me, I reversed my Alzheimer's"? I searched and searched, but I couldn't find a single actual case.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just in a troubled state of mind so thanks for understanding.

I guess my question is, have you seen someone actually and objectively improve and reverse their Alzheimer's?

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Re: Did you ever witness objective results of the Bredesen protocol?

Postby Tincup » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:56 am

Welcome Walnut! You might be interested in this book. "Defeating Dementia: My Recovery from Alzheimer's"

Also the story of our founder & President, Julie Gregory

From what I know, this is far from a lucrative deal for Dr. Bredesen. Julie went a long way to solving her own problem, founded this group and in Sept., 2014, Dr. Bredesen published his first paper demonstrating reversal in 9/10 patients. Julie reached out to Dr. B and he has been supportive our group since. I was part of a group from ApoE4.info that went to Berkeley for a meetup and we met with Dr. B at the Buck institute in Marin in 2015. We also toured the Buck labs and met many of the scientists. Their work is real. When you read Dr. B's work (book and publications), one of his points is that this illness is multifactorial. Sorting out which issues apply to a person can be a challenge. It is not a cookie cutter approach. The low hanging fruit is getting rid of hyperinsulinemia. This will reduce risk of many comorbidities that can cause health challenges. Stavia (a GP member here) has a primer that is also worth reading.
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Re: Did you ever witness objective results of the Bredesen protocol?

Postby RAJ64 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:59 am

Walnut wrote:Hello everyone! I'm new to the board but this is not about me, it's about my dad.... Sorry for the rant. I'm just in a troubled state of mind so thanks for understanding. I guess my question is, have you seen someone actually and objectively improve and reverse their Alzheimer's?

Hello Walnut! Welcome to the ApoE4.info forum!

Your rant is also welcome. :D That's a major reason this forum exists, to offer support for anyone affected by cognitive decline, whether you OR a loved one. As someone who has watched a loved one suffer with AD, I understand your alarm and concern. It is such a disheartening experience to witness a loved one's functionality become impaired by changes to cognition.

It is understandable to be skeptical and even wise, especially when it comes to matters of health and wellbeing. Asking questions leads to greater understanding of both the problem and possible solutions. While this forum doesn't promote one protocol over another, there are members who have successfully applied Dr. Bredesen's protocol. There are many personal stories and threads on topics related to your question. I will share with you how to search so you can continue to read and glean some of the amazing collective wisdom found here on the forum.

One of the founding members and current president of ApoE4.info, Julie G., has successfully applied Bredesen's protocol to herself with wonderful results. In fact, you read about her success in Dr. Bredesen's book! I see that Tincup has already filled you in a little on Julie G's success story including a link to a video interview. Tincup also offered a personal perspective having met Dr. Bredesen in the past.

A key takeaway point is that the cause of cognitive decline is as individual as the people it affects, so the fact that there is no one size fits all curative approach bodes well for the legitimacy of the protocol. A person with cognitive decline, and in many cases their caregiver(s), must invest personal effort into finding out the cause of the decline (what type of AD is it?) and what works for them to reverse or minimize it (what interventions work to patch the holes in this particular roof?).

Tincup mentioned insulin resistance being one common denominator in the fight against cognitive decline. There are powerful lifestyle changes that can be undertaken by anyone which will, as you mentioned, improve overall health and wellbeing with little to no risk. Simple Preventive Steps is a good place to start for strategies anyone can use with the benefit of improving all aspects of health.

One challenge to sustained improvement is commitment to permanent lifestyle changes. I have read here on the forum that success depends on the level of commitment or ability to follow a protocol. I found a roadblock here with my own mother in the years before Bredesen's protocol was published. I was educated on what could help her, but the implementation was impossible for me to "enforce". Perhaps if I had had this knowledge 15 years prior to her debilitating decline with AD, I could have gotten her and my father on board and lifestyle changes could have been more permanent and successful. If I had been able to educate them earlier in the trajectory, the place where you are now, perhaps more years of her life would have been productive. I think you have every cause to be hopeful!

Since you are new to the forum let me introduce you to some useful tools for navigating the site:

How To Get The Most Out Of The ApoE4.Info Website is a good place to start. You will learn how the site is organized and how to navigate it like a pro. :D

A forum can be a confusing place to find information on a specific topic. Using the Search function helps you find previous conversations or threads on topics that interest you. We encourage people to post to previous topics, even if they haven't been active for a while. It gets conversations going and often promotes new ways of looking at an issue. In addition, you can search for a specific thread topic by clicking on the magnifying glass icon in the upper right corner of the menu bar at the top of the page. How To Search the ApoE4 Site

Quoting someone in a post facilitates conversation between members. It triggers an email to the forum member that you are quoting and gives that person a link to log on and open the ApoE4.info website right to your comment. So if you would like to "tag" someone in a post, here are the directions for how to do that: How To Use the Quote Function

Most of all, please know that your skepticism is welcome because that is how we develop a solid foundation of knowledge to use for discerning a path going forward. Please continue to ask questions. Best to you as you seek answers to help your father. I am excited for the possibilities that exist for him and your family, that were not available even less than a decade ago! :)

Warmly,
Rachel
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Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach
With the new day comes new strength and new thoughts. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt

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Re: Did you ever witness objective results of the Bredesen protocol?

Postby NF52 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:12 am

Walnut wrote:Hello everyone!

I'm new to the board but this is not about me, it's about my dad....
My dad is now 66 and I've been noticing he's gotten quite forgetful over the years. It's been about 5-6 years since I started noticing. He still lives normally, but now his forgetfulness has gotten to the point where he sometimes can't discern whether a thing happened yesterday or earlier in the day. I notice he has trouble learning new things...

I read Dale Bredesen's book and it has given me so much hope. But I'm really wary and scared of being hopeful about him getting better only to slowly realize it's not helping. ...I guess my question is, have you seen someone actually and objectively improve and reverse their Alzheimer's?
Welcome, Walnut!
I happen to be the person you quoted in your other post about Dr. Bredesen's study of 100 patients who had used individualized ReCode protocols at various stages of cognitive impairment. You've already received wonderful advice from RAJ64, who is one of our Health Coach interns, and Tincup, a Moderator. So I will try only to add a few things.

First and maybe most importantly, your feelings of being "wary and scared about being hopeful..only to realize it's not helping" is perfectly normal. My advice is to first, be kind to yourself and accept that this is going to sometimes be a rollercoaster ride that you, your parents and your siblings or partner are all riding differently.

It helps to think of any kind of cognitive change as a process that occurs over decades, the same as most diseases. Researchers now believe that, as Dr. Bredesen advocates, the goal is to intervene as early as possible to promote good brain, cardiovascular and immune health. That means there are many opportunities to try to tweak upstream functioning. Your dad might be open to thinking of himself as getting regular comprehensive tune-ups so he runs like a car that runs beautifully past 200,000 miles. Many of the labs suggested in the Primer's appendix on Biomarkers might be easily ordered by your dad's doctor and paid for by Medicare.

If your dad is sitting at home (and who isn't these days!), you may want to talk with your mom about ways they could both take walks in the neighborhood, or along a scenic path in a nearby park. Lots of evidence suggests that just being in "greenspace" is good for our mood and our immune system. He may even want to get back to a skill he had when younger that would keep him engaged and solving problems, which is good for our memory and brain networks. As an example, I have a brother your dad's age who loves to scavenge items at garage or estate sales and then uses his creativity, refinishing skills and endless patience to turn them into clocks, chairs, tables, etc. that sell quickly online.

Your dad may be very self-conscious about not remembering what he had for lunch, or when he saw someone. It helps to think of those as "narrative extras" that you don't usually know or care about in a movie, so you can avoid them in conversations with your dad. Instead, it might help to say things like "looks like you finally got back to the barber--how is Louie doing these days?" Even if he can't remember when he went, he probably can easily say "oh you know, they're a bunch of old guys who tell the same stories every time." It's important in those situations not to say "Dad, how can you not remember that you saw Uncle Bob yesterday and not this morning?!" All of us have fallible memories, so if he says "I saw Bob this morning" you might continue the conversation with some cue like "what is Uncle Bob up to these days? Has he been golfing yet?"

For you, it also will help to realize that much of life is a process of adjusting to change and reframing loss as "yes and this happened instead". Even as my mother's memories for recent events faded, she gained a wonderful interest in sharing the family "scandals" and her own history with me! All I really needed to say was "how was it that Uncle Baxter happened to get engaged to 2 different women?" and we would end up an hour later laughing and feeling great! For your dad it might be "Dad, remember when I hated getting up in the morning for high school? Was that the same for you? Did you ever skip school and get caught?" You can also simply share your work and family life with him some. As parents of three adults in their 30's, my husband and I cherish those conversations.

Gently be open to new ways of thinking about what's "helpful" for him. My mother was helped (and relieved) when I suggested having almost all of her bills paid online and setting up my email (which she never had) as the contact for accounts, using the durable Power of Attorney she had signed. She could independently drive to the local branch of her sole bank, where the staff gave her a hug every week, and still feel independent as she wrote a check for cash to have on hand.

And most of all, Walnut, know that your dad is still the person who loves you. As a friend told her children when their grandmother's memories and language faded, "Grandma doesn't have all the words; but she still has all her feelings, so that is what we are going to honor." Take care and know you are cherished.
4/4 and still an optimist!

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Re: Did you ever witness objective results of the Bredesen protocol?

Postby Tincup » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:30 am

From the FB group Bredesen Protocol Support Group, Unaffiliated

"I’m excited to share the story of one of my patients who was able to reverse his Alzheimer’s disease with our work together.

I really got a kick from filling out his DMV form, and for the diagnosis, I put ”Alzheimer’s - in remission”.

Most of traditional medicine does not believe a diagnosis like this can happen, but it happens all the time with the work that I do.

I’m so happy to keep spreading the word that DEMENTIA IS NOT A DEATH SENTENCE! "

After Alzheimer’s Diagnosis, Man Regains His Memory – and His Driver’s License

and Dementia Researcher-M.D. Reverses Her Own Early-Onset Dementia
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Re: Did you ever witness objective results of the Bredesen protocol?

Postby floramaria » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:52 pm

Walnut wrote:Hello everyone!
I read Dale Bredesen's book and it has given me so much hope. But I'm really wary and scared of being hopeful about him getting better only to slowly realize it's not helping.

Since I'm skeptical by nature of people's motives, I can't but worry that Dr. Bredesen is in it mainly for the money. No doubt selling the book and giving practitioners over the world a lease on the protocol is very lucrative. His advice is reasonable, there's not much in there that can cause adverse effects - if anything, it will make one healthier overall - but I can't help not to be doubtful when I read his anonymous patients' testimonies in the book. How come not a single person came out and said "look at me, I reversed my Alzheimer's"? I searched and searched, but I couldn't find a single actual case.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just in a troubled state of mind so thanks for understanding.

I guess my question is, have you seen someone actually and objectively improve and reverse their Alzheimer's?

Hi Walnut, I understand being wary and scared to hope. As you yourself point out though, "there's not much in there that can cause adverse effects - if anything, it will make one healthier overall". From my perspective, there is nothing to lose by trying to follow what Dr Bredesen suggests, though it requires effort, and some expense in terms of high quality food, supplements and testing.

I can tell you honestly that when I went to the training course with Dr Bredesen, I approached that with some wariness myself. I went early each day so that I could sit in the first row, directly in front of him. I knew that I would not be able to understand and evaluate all of the scientific research presented, but I felt confident that I would be able to discern whether he was sincere or a charlatan. From my experience of being at the training, listening to him talk, watching him, and speaking with him directly a number of times, my impression is that he is dedicated, absolutely sincere, and has a tremendous amount of integrity. He is humble and honest enough to admit that there is a lot that is still unknown, and he adapts his protocol as he gets new information.

As for money, he does not lease out his protocol. It is not like he is operating a cognitive health franchise! He offers training to qualified professional at what seems to be a reasonable rate. To me it seems that what is driving him is a real desire to end Alzheimer's Disease. After all, he wrote a book that lays out the protocol in detail, giving specific target lab values for the biomarkers he uses in his ReCODE and ReVERSE Programs, and listing which supplement he believes are important. That information is available to anyone who reads the book and wants to follow it independently.
Practitioners set their own rates. As far as I know, he does not get any part of that.
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IFM/ Bredesen Training in Reversing Cognitive Decline (March 2017)
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Re: Did you ever witness objective results of the Bredesen protocol?

Postby michgindl » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:01 pm

Hi Everyone,

I am looking to speak to someone who has done the Bredesen protocol.

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Re: Did you ever witness objective results of the Bredesen protocol?

Postby KendrahB » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:18 pm

michgindl wrote:Hi Everyone,

I am looking to speak to someone who has done the Bredesen protocol.


Welcome michgindl!

Thanks for joining the forum - hopefully someone within this thread will see your post and reply from experience or be able to link a relevant forum topic, but also feel free to navigate to use the search bar in the top left corner of the forum pages (once inside any of the main forum categories) to search for specifics throughout the forum. I do see many references to books, studies, and even a facebook group within this thread that may answer your questions - if you have trouble finding that information please let me know!
We would all also love to hear more about you if you'd like to post something in
Our Stories about yourself and where in this health journey you or a loved one are coming from.

If you are also interested in a general overview about the APOE4 gene and a doctors perspective, check out the Primer, written by a member who is also a physician. The Wikki can also help you navigate the site, and visit this link should you want more information on hyperlinks, private messaging other forum members, or learn more about using "quoting" so that the person you are replying to gets an alert about your response.

Please don't hesitate to reach out should you have any technical or resource questions,
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Re: Did you ever witness objective results of the Bredesen protocol?

Postby NF52 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:21 pm

michgindl wrote:Hi Everyone,

I am looking to speak to someone who has done the Bredesen protocol.
Hi michgindl!

You've asked a question that has a whole range of possible answers, since there is really not just one Bredesen protocol. The protocol might be thought of as a way of looking at what Dr. Bredesen calls the "36 holes in the roof" causes of cognitive impairment, and diseases such as dementia. Most researchers agree with him that multiple factors--genetics, environment, access to health care, stress, pollution, history of traumatic brain injury, conditions such as insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, diabetes, heart disease, smoking, untreated mental health issues, obesity, sedentary lifestyle, lack of access to education in early life, lack of social supports and cognitive challenges throughout life, diet, and supplements could all be factors which increase or decrease our resistance and resilience to Alzheimers and other diseases. How someone applies Dr. Bredesen's ideas can be very different depending on their age, current health and family history. Not everyone on the forum practices the protocol--we are a group of very independent folks!

The "protocol" can be as simple as deciding to eat within a 12-hour window and stop 3 hours before bedtime, with more healthy fats and veggies and less processed food. Or it could be a commitment to working with your own health care provider, or a health coach, functional medicine provider or going to direct-to-consumer testing sites that provide a whole range of possible blood tests to measure areas that might benefit from improvements in diet, exercise, etc. I have known people who used the Bredesen protocol to fine tune what was already a very healthy lifestyle, or to find out what a doctor trained in the protocol recommended for stubborn issues that concerned them.

Reading The End of Alzheimer's is a good way to see the basics of the program, and a sequel to it is coming out in August, I believe. You may also want to read our Primer, written by a doctor who focuses strongly on basic strategies and key areas such as insulin resistance.

If you're comfortable sharing, feel free to tell us a little more about what your own motivation for talking to someone. That may help find a person with similar background who has experience with the protocol. We generally "talk" through these posts, which give everyone the ability to speak freely and benefit from our shared ideas.

Hope to hear from you again.
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