1st International Conference on Fasting, Dietary Restriction, Longevity and Disease

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Re: 1st International Conference on Fasting, Dietary Restriction, Longevity and Disease

Postby Tincup » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:24 pm

mike wrote:[Prior to the fast, my fasting sugars were in the 220-230 range.


Mike,

Were your blood sugars in this range before you did any of your extended fasts?

I've only done 5 to 7 day fasts, though I did 19 five-day fasts between May 2017 and January 2018. My objective was not weight loss and I was weight stable from the start of one fasting cycle to the next. My fasting blood sugars when not fasting range from 75-95, generally. On a fast, they quickly drop into the 50's, though one time my serum glucose dropped to 31, so I went to the gym and set PR's on my lifts. I know a guy who does 30+ day fasts once or twice a year. He just did one that was at least 35 days. He's thin. I think he runs his glucose into the 30's routinely. When not fasting, I think his glucose is in the 70's.
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Re: 1st International Conference on Fasting, Dietary Restriction, Longevity and Disease

Postby mike » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:17 pm

Tincup wrote:
Mike,

Were your blood sugars in this range before you did any of your extended fasts?


Yes, that is where they were prior to this last fast. I've been a T2D for 20 years. I was in reasonable control prior to a stroke in 2014. Then for some reason, my meds stopped working as well. I tried a new drug, and it put me in to the ICU for ten days; it had caused my triglycerides to go above 1600... I was put on insulin in the hospital and continued afterwards. I started gaining weight and could not control eating. I'm 6'3" and went to 270 lbs. I stopped insulin and immediately dropped ten pounds without my sugars getting worse. My wife had recently started a keto diet and was having some success. I started and dropped thirty pounds, but then stalled. This particular diet was also advocating long fasting and I thought I would give it a try. It was much easier than I thought it would be. In my first fast, my sugars also dropped like yours, but both the recent ones have leveled off in the 80s. They suggest re-feeding for 3x the fasting period before doing another fast. I did another. Before the first fast, my A1c was 9.8 and after the second re-feeding 3x period it was down to 8.4. Then the 2017 California fire hit. I was working our EOC for 80 hours a week. Huge setback. I stopped exercising pretty much over the winter. I got back In the saddle come spring and started more exercise and built up strength and endurance. I stayed around 210 pounds this last year while building muscle, but sugars have crept back up. I'm hoping to keep it up this winter, then do another fast in the new year and see where I end up.
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Re: 1st International Conference on Fasting, Dietary Restriction, Longevity and Disease

Postby Tincup » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:16 am

Hi Mike,

As a Mod, I deleted the first two of your three posts above as they appeared to basically be duplicates. Looks like you were trying to get your post correct. You may not be aware you can edit your post and there is a preview function so you can see what it looks like before you submit. On a computer browser, the pencil icon at the left of all the icons at the top of the post allows you to edit. The Preview button is next to and to the left of the submit button. You also may wish to read "How-To" Get the most out of the ApoE4.info website for more tips.
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Re: 1st International Conference on Fasting, Dietary Restriction, Longevity and Disease

Postby Tincup » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:51 am

mike wrote:
Yes, that is where they were prior to this last fast. I've been a T2D for 20 years. I was in reasonable control prior to a stroke in 2014. Then for some reason, my meds stopped working as well. I tried a new drug, and it put me in to the ICU for ten days; it had caused my triglycerides to go above 1600... I was put on insulin in the hospital and continued afterwards. I started gaining weight and could not control eating. I'm 6'3" and went to 270 lbs. I stopped insulin and immediately dropped ten pounds without my sugars getting worse. My wife had recently started a keto diet and was having some success. I started and dropped thirty pounds, but then stalled. This particular diet was also advocating long fasting and I thought I would give it a try. It was much easier than I thought it would be. In my first fast, my sugars also dropped like yours, but both the recent ones have leveled off in the 80s. They suggest re-feeding for 3x the fasting period before doing another fast. I did another. Before the first fast, my A1c was 9.8 and after the second re-feeding 3x period it was down to 8.4. Then the 2017 California fire hit. I was working our EOC for 80 hours a week. Huge setback. I stopped exercising pretty much over the winter. I got back In the saddle come spring and started more exercise and built up strength and endurance. I stayed around 210 pounds this last year while building muscle, but sugars have crept back up. I'm hoping to keep it up this winter, then do another fast in the new year and see where I end up.


I'm not a doc, so these are just some thoughts.

You may have pancreatic insufficiency. I realize the point of your long fasts is to stimulate stem cells to increase pancreatic function. You appear to have enough function when you are fasting, but not when you are eating. A serum insulin test two hours after eating could say whether you are insulin resistant or not enough insulin. If you had results with high glucose and low insulin (say < 20), it would indicate you aren't making enough insulin.

Dr. Roy Taylor, in the UK at the Newcastle MRI center, was able to put T2 diabetics in remission with an 8 week, low calorie (600-800? cal/day) diet. He demonstrated that it was a very little amount of fat on the pancreas that was removed that created the benefit. However those who had been T2 for longer than 4 years did not show a complete benefit. Link

Raymund Edwards is the guy who does the long fasts. He agrees with your 3x eating to fasting ratio. In his Optimal Ketogenic Living private Facebook Group, he does coach people. I think he is very good. One of his points is for fasters to slowly increase their potassium intake, saying that this will decrease muscle loss during fasting. His group has 50,000+ people and he has a lot of experience coaching fasters.

When you aren't fasting, you may want to consider some insulin to control your glucose as your numbers are in the range where hyperglycemic damage can occur. Dr. Jason Fung has said that he coaches people to reduce meds when fasting, with somewhat higher serum glucose. But he does want some control. Fung has a huge blog. He also has given many lectures that are on YouTube and also books. Dr. Richard Bernstein goes into great detail on insulin dosing to get ideal blood sugars. He has an online YouTube "Diabetes University."

In summary, I think you are on track with your fasting, but you might consider adding insulin to your routine to help control your glucose when you are not fasting.
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Re: 1st International Conference on Fasting, Dietary Restriction, Longevity and Disease

Postby mike » Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:49 pm

Yes, I'm following OKL. And I'm following Raymund's supplements. I do need to do more insulin tests, but when I was on insulin before, it did not help me in the least. I started on basil and then after upping the dose a few times, I added fast acting pre meals. Again, kept having to increase dosage with little effect. I literally could not control eating. When I dropped insulin all together, my sugars did not go up. I subsequently dropped all diabetic meds one after another. The last one I gave up was the only one that seemed to help - Trulicity. My defect seems different, and seems to have something to do with how high my body wants my sugars to be. As you said, even during fasting my body kept my glucose too high. I did have a C-peptide test a couple of years ago, and it came back low normal...
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Re: 1st International Conference on Fasting, Dietary Restriction, Longevity and Disease

Postby ChipW » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:26 am

Brian4 wrote:- Consider rapamycin. I’ll be doing a very high-dose trial for 5 or so weeks soon and will report on that. The 5 mg/week protocol, which many are trying, probably is way, way too low.
- Consider metformin. I’d love to see evidence that it works in healthy humans, but, absent that, it might still be a good bet. Can only guess at right dose, but 500 mg twice a day if you're in good shape, a bit more otherwise, is what many are trying.



Cant wait to see your results. I took rapamycin 3mg/weekly for 4 months last year along with 500 to 1000mg metformin last year for 4 months. I lost a considerable amount of weight. i didnt notice much cognitive improvement but i didnt seem to have any issues to start with. My homocysteine level jumped to 12. i think, possibly, it was the metformin.

Im currently on month 4 of rapamycin at 3 to 6mg weekly. Im not doing the metformin this time and added TMG, alpha-GPC, creatine, and glycine per Masterjohn to aid with methylation. if my homocysteine is down on my next blood work, i think i will add metformin back to the mix.
My original plan was to take rapamycin for 4 months every year but im considering just doing it all year now. Im 49, apoe3/4 with a couple methylation mutations.

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Re: 1st International Conference on Fasting, Dietary Restriction, Longevity and Disease

Postby slacker » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:19 pm

ChipW wrote:My homocysteine level jumped to 12. i think, possibly, it was the metformin.


Hi Chip;

I'm sure that you know that metformin can inhibit vit B12 absorption. You may need more B12 to control your homocysteine if you decide to restart metformin.
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Re: 1st International Conference on Fasting, Dietary Restriction, Longevity and Disease

Postby ChipW » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:17 pm

slacker wrote:
ChipW wrote:My homocysteine level jumped to 12. i think, possibly, it was the metformin.


Hi Chip;

I'm sure that you know that metformin can inhibit vit B12 absorption. You may need more B12 to control your homocysteine if you decide to restart metformin.


Thanks Slacker. I was taking B12 but it wasnt the methylated kind. I now know i need the methylated B's because of my MTHFR genes. i will do better next time. it sure is a puzzle putting all this together but very interesting.

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Re: 1st International Conference on Fasting, Dietary Restriction, Longevity and Disease

Postby slacker » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:06 pm

ChipW wrote:
Thanks Slacker. I was taking B12 but it wasnt the methylated kind. I now know i need the methylated B's because of my MTHFR genes. i will do better next time. it sure is a puzzle putting all this together but very interesting.


Yes, Chip! There is always something else to learn.
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